LF, 32, she/her
Semi-deciduous.

Jillian is a mixed-media artist and educator living in Los Angeles

Location: Los Angeles, CA / Nevada City, CA
Day of quarantine: 7

JD: Paying $1,300 rent doesn’t seem like a priority right now ... I feel like it would be a priority if I thought the world would return back to normal, but I don’t. What was ‘normal’ wasn’t normal, like working super hard and not making any money…You’re not going to use that for the interview are you?

MU: Why not? 

JD: Oh, I dunno, cause I’m like thriving during coronavirus.

MU: That’s fine...that’s.. I want different perspectives, you know? 

JD: Okay. Well, what about the people? Okay, so here’s the thing though, is like, ‘cause I’m kind of thinking, even though I can pay for rent this month, I’m thinking that I should not, so my landlord would give a break to some of the other tenants.

MU: [Our friend] said the same thing, yeah. 

JD: Yeah. Okay. So she’s in the same position?

MU: Yeah. She can pay rent fine, she’s working from home as well. 

JD: Okay, okay, okay, okay.

MU: But a lot of people can’t, so…Um, so your name is Jillian. Your location?

JD: My location currently is in Nevada City, California.

MU: Nevada City, California. And do you know what day of shelter in place that you’re on?

JD: Um, Monday of last week.. So.. 7, day 7.

MU: Okay, alright, I am going to start the questions. 

JD: Cool.

MU: How are you feeling?

JD: I’m feeling okay. I’m feeling a little bit crazy. I’m going a little bit mad with this new routine. Like, I’m trying to make up a routine, basically.

MU: Yeah, a totally new lifestyle?

JD: Yeah, a totally dramatic shift in lifestyle, correct.

MU: Are you able to work from home? 

JD: I am able to work from home, but I am not sure how long that is going to last, since my job is working in real time with students on equipment. So my work right now is some administration stuff, but I am thinking they’re going to dish out some furlough pretty soon.

MU: Do you know anyone that has been tested positive for coronavirus?

JD: Yes, one of the members in my Buy Nothing group, her brother died of coronavirus.

MU: Oh god.

JD: So my group in LA, my Buy Nothing group had to suspend all activity, because of it.

MU: That’s really sad. 

JD: I know, it was intense. 

MU: Have you been in contact with anyone who’s tested positive? 

JD: Not that I know of…

MU: Do you have health insurance?

JD: Yes I do.

MU: What has been your least favorite part of sheltering in place?

JD: Uh, the fear that I might not have a job when it’s all over.

MU: Yeah I think that’s a lot of people’s least favorite part.

JD: Yeah, I think that’s the worst. I think about it every 20 minutes...(laughs) and that’s being generous.

MU: What do you think will be different about the world once this is all over? 

JD: Okay, I think we’re going to be in a Great Depression, a second one. I think it’s going to be a major recession, I don’t think it’s going to just take a month to financially, like, bounce back from this experience. And I think people after this are going to have that hoarder’s mentality, there’s always going to be the people that have more money getting the resources from people who don’t.

MU: It’s like Facebook, with their 720,000 masks. 

JD: Is that what happened? Did they get some?

MU: No, they have hundreds of thousands stockpiled. They donated 720,000 of their stash. They already had them.

JD: Oh my god. See that’s what I’m talking about. What the fuck? Does that even make sense? Why would they have masks? 

MU: Why would they need that many, yeah.

JD: The whole thing is an inside job, that’s the thing. Coronavirus, I don’t know what it is. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that it just came out of the woodwork, out of nowhere.

MU: Yeah… a lot of people think that. Did you panic-buy anything? What was important for you to have during this time? 

JD: I panic-bought a lot of cat stuff. Like a harness, because I scrambled the day Safer at Home went into place in LA, because people in Santa Monica were getting fined and stuff for fucking being out of their homes and whatnot, for non-essential items. 

MU: Yeah.

JD: So I had to rush and scramble to get the cats together, and that was so intense to get them in the crate that I never want to go through that again. So I’m training them right now to comply with sudden travel. So every day we work for about 3 hours on, you know, not being violent getting into the crate and stuff. And I got a 60 day supply from the vet of sedatives. You know in the emergency that I have to knock out the fucking cats and leave in a flash.

MU: Yeah, similarly, I stocked up on cat food and things for my cat as well. 

JD: I think I prepared better for my cats than I did for myself. 

MU: Yeah, I can relate to that.

JD: So, SPD [grocery store] here in Grass Valley, they have green lentils that they’ll put out every day. But only a certain amount, and you have to limit a certain amount per person. You have to only buy a pound or two pounds or something.

MU: They’re doing that with toilet paper.

JD: I don’t even see toilet paper at the stores. I’m not seeing any toilet paper anywhere.

MU: Yeah the only place I found it was my corner store actually... It was just something people really worried about. Have you been doing any mutual aid work or any organizing?

JD: Hm, yeah, I started a new group for Nevada County – I started the new gift economy up here, the Buy Nothing.

MU: What are you hoping to achieve from that?

JD: You know what? Since people don’t have resources at the stores, I’m hoping that they can share. I know here in Nevada County a lot of the shops are still open, so the Safer at Home hasn’t quite been, I don’t want to say implemented here, but definitely not to the extent Los Angeles was, and I’m like just comparing the two experiences.. But Nevada County, I feel like this community is okay with going from door to door, or you know, doing a porch pickup for some free items.

MU: Yep, just depends what your community is like I guess.

JD: Yeah, I mean it’s kind of weird today because [our friend] is having a craft party, and I asked how many people are going to be there? And she didn’t really say, and she asked, “well, are you symptomatic?” And I was like dude, I just got out of LA, I really don’t know if I’m a carrier.

MU: A lot of people aren’t having symptoms.

JD: Exactly. Exactly.

MU: What have you been eating lately?

JD: Oh god, the food thing’s been crazy... So when I was in LA like the grocery stores didn’t have bread, the grocery stores didn’t have vegetables. Like it was really slim pickings, and I don’t know if that was just the time that I went or whatever, but here in Nevada City the grocery stores are business as usual, except with dried goods. So what I’ve been trying not to eat because I’m hoarding, I’m hoarding like beans and lentils and a bunch of dried shit because I’m preparing, I’m literally preparing for like a major recession right now, like doomsday prepping (laughs). Yeah, so I’m stockpiling, like I want to have three months worth of food for me and the cats. 

MU: And I know you have water.

JD: Do I have water? No, because I left my doomsday shit in LA. So I have to stockpile a bunch of new stuff, because I just left shit in LA, because I got so…I like panic-packed.

MU: You just left, yeah.

JD: I literally just left. Because I heard about people getting fined. I just can’t handle that sort of like authoritarian control. Like just on a visual level…or even like conceptual level. So I just had to fucking leave. 

MU: What would you say is the biggest shift in your lifestyle since the start of the pandemic?

JD: Um...I think I’m working harder right now. 

MU: Hm, that’s interesting. 

JD: Because I have to do my job and then on top of that, prep. So once I put in all my hours for work, which is like computer work, which in its own ways is laborious, I’m writing the user manuals for like random saws, and it’s like tedious, and the vernacular’s weird. So I’m adjusting to a new work, whatever, and then on top of that I’m working very hard to get that box van together, training the cats... I just feel like by 11 o’clock I haven’t spent any time doing anything casual, for myself. I’ve just been hustling, because I just can’t allow myself to just relax. 

MU: Sit and dwell. 

JD: Yeah, because if I just sit and dwell, it’s like I think about … I mean, this is not the time to relax. That’s my position. This is the time to prepare, stockpile. I am afraid of the government, whatever. We just don’t know what’s going to happen. We really don’t know what’s gonna happen.

MU: What do you think about the government’s response to all of this, how it’s been?

JD: I think it’s been slow, that’s pretty much my only complaint. I don’t understand why Gavin Newsom ...  I know he’s trying to get that money for his project, for the homeless shelter. So I feel like he has an ulterior agenda, which is this project he started. I don’t know much about it, but I just don’t feel like Gavin Newsom has publicly spoken out to the issues on rent and mortgage and utilities and shit. This whole thing is just showing how fragile our infrastructure is, and like we really need change.

MU: Is that what you would say the positive has been in all of this?

JD: It might not be change for the better, so I can’t be like that’s a “positive”. Something’s going to come from it, some sort of revolution, whether it comes like 10 years from now, or months from now, but like some shits going to have to change. 

MU: That concludes my questions. Is there anything you felt like wasn’t addressed?

JD: Maybe like what are people doing? I mean maybe people are chilling during this time and taking advantage of it.

MU: Oh, yeah! Sam’s question was how are you dealing with your anxieties? 

JD: I feel like that’s a good question because it brings in a positive [aspect].

MU: Have you found anything that’s helped you? Maybe keeping busy it sounds like?

JD: Yeah, but that could also attribute to the anxiety. The only thing that I’m doing for my anxiety is I take a walk a day, like a 20-minute walk, and if I don’t do that I start to hyperventilate, and start kind of panic mode.

MU: Because you’re cooped up?

JD: Not really.

MU: Why do you think the walk helps?

JD: I think I need a little bit of movement during this time. Since my work has gone from being on the floor in a shop, walking around and helping students, and running if they’re doing shit wrong, to doing computer work for 8 hours a day.
[Jillian’s boss has her check in by email at 8am and check out by email at 4pm.]

MU: Yeah I feel the same way.

JD: Yeah, because that’s kind of a big transition for me, and like I’m kind of curling in on myself. Everything’s changed, like I don’t have my yoga that I go to. Like right now I’m building a skill set because it’s like if shit really hits the fan and our whole economy crumbles we need to have like real life skills, you know, to get through this emergency. So I’m trying to work on my construction design. I’m like doing all these tutorials on Lynda, on how to build and shit. Lynda right now is … it’s not Lynda, it’s LinkedIn now, but LinkedIn is making their content available and I think Adobe Photoshop is doing something like that too.

MU: I saw that, Creative Cloud, you can sign up for two months free.

JD: I don’t know about learning a design skill during this time. I’m shooting myself in the foot. Artists are going to be the first to suffer.

Arlin is an all-around movie person in Oakland whose most common dream is the one where it’s finals and he hasn’t been to class all semester.

Location: Oakland, CA
Day of quarantine: 7

MU: Okay, first question is how are you feeling? 

AG: I feel okay. It’s like most of my anxiety is about I guess kind of macro things that are way beyond my control or you know, like all the national response, and like the greater effect on the film community. And you know, the things that are in my control, which are like food and sanity and my work are like relatively okay for now. 

MU: That’s good.

AG: But like, you know, I’m definitely like … I think like a lot of people probably, I’m just reloading my Twitter all the time. Just seeing you know, what horrible things are being said, just aghast at the Biden basement stuff..

MU: (laughs)

AG: (laughs) So yeah, I’m doing okay. Animal Crossing is a comfort. This is the end of week one. We started on Tuesday, so for week one... Yeah, okay. I just ran to Mandela Co-op to grab some fresh things because we were running out of fruits and veggies and they were pretty low on those things. But like, you know, it’s only a matter of time before I start dipping into the ramen and mac and cheese reserve. 

MU: Yeah, yeah, the canned goods. Are you able to work from home at all, or did you file for unemployment? 

AG: I am able to work from home at all. Like technically, my ability to actually do work is like…our company is small, there are only four of us who work there, and like two contractors who help, and our business mostly happens online and over email. So yeah, I’ve been working as much as I can and trying to do as much as I can over email. I think for one or two months we’ll be able to weather the storm, more than that is questionable. But if it’s more than that, like everyone’s personal employment is probably pretty low on the totem pole in terms of concerns.

MU: Yeah, true... Do you know anyone who’s tested positive or have you been in contact with anyone? 

AG: No, I don’t know anyone. It’s all like friends of friends of friends that I’ve heard of, no one in my family or not that I know personally. People think that they had it, but none of us know.

MU: Yeah, there’s been a lot of that.

AG: Yeah, right. Bernadette’s housemate I guess had some shortness of breath, but I don’t know, nothing yet. I mean and I just heard Oakland got its first case like a couple days ago, I think. And it was a cop, so, you know, whatever. But we’ll see what happens. 

MU: Do you have health insurance through your work?

AG: I do not have health insurance, through anything. So I’m hoping to stay healthy. I’ve got a lot of acetaminophen and Dayquil and weed gummies, and that’s my healthcare right now. 

MU: Pretty good. I heard vitamin C helps apparently. 

AG: Yeah. I got some oranges, keeping up on the oranges, and specifically Dekopone, sumo-citrus, do you know about those? Oh my god, the season’s wrapping up now, but I got a bunch before the lock down, and they’re basically like, giant orange sized clementines.

MU: Oh, I saw those.

AG: Oh my god, they’re so good. They’re just like so sweet and easy to peel and not messy. But I think I only have one of those left… so that will be sad when it’s gone. 

MU: I know, I’ve been doing oranges super hard. Let’s see, what has been your least favorite part of sheltering in place?

AG: I guess just anxiety and uncertainty, and kind of like, we were texting about it a little, but the desire and expectation to kind of keep going and maintain normalcy under the reality of just a totally unprecedented situation.

MU: Totally.

AG: You know, who knows what’s going to happen and develop. They’re saying the National Guard is being deployed to help with testing and beds and stuff. But then it’s just going to be like if social unrest starts, the boots are already going to be here on the ground, you know, so that stuff’s not great. I mean like that... it’s all interior and mental. I feel like the material aspects of sheltering in place really haven’t been too hard for me, you know, like I went on a bike ride on Saturday just to get out for a little bit. But I mean other than that, I’m a guy who watches a lot of movies anyway, so it’s not super different. So yeah, I mean, it’s really just all the mental interior load that I think is the least favorite part.

MU: Yep, and what do you think is going to be different about the world once this is finally over, whenever it is?

AG: I don’t know. I read a lot of opinions on that and from kind of the mundane to like, oh, you know, people have no excuse not to let people work remotely. It’s like fine whatever to so okay, like the mask’s off, we see how much money could be spent on things and we won’t be able to accept, you know, like a continuation of how things were. Which I’d like to think that’s the case, but I don’t know how much hope I have for that, just because hope’s hard to come by. But my cynical take probably is that not too much is actually going to change, like they’ll be a period of adjusting to normalcy maybe, and then it’ll be like “normal”. But I hope that if it comes to a point where shelter in place ends and still no direct payments have been made to people, no rent strike has been called, that we’ll be able to organize quickly for a general strike, somehow, and that that’ll affect... like I think about that now...it’s like how do we protest? How do we actually demonstrate in a situation where gatherings are banned?

MU: Yeah, from our house by ourselves. 

AG: Right, like what? Okay, we could defy the order and then potentially like all get sick. So then not having insurance, well, that’s probably not a great idea. But yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know that anything is going to change. My hope is for any catastrophe or crisis or whatever is that we’d all come out stronger and into a better world, but I don’t think that happened after 9/11 at all, which was probably the last disaster we went through. There was the ‘08 financial crisis, but like, you know, we were in college or younger around then, I don’t know that we felt that super hard. So I mean, you even think like, going back to World War II and it’s like, all the black soldiers came back and Jim Crow was still there. They still couldn’t get home loans. So it’s like, you know, is there any historic precedent really for emerging into a better world? I’m not really sure that there is.

MU: Yeah, we have no proof of that. Have you been doing any organizing or have you been seeing people organizing online or doing mutual aid or creating resources for people?

AG: Yeah I’ve seen a lot of small group and individual efforts. I’m mostly in touch with the broader film community, and there have been funds set up for cinema workers, for instance. That kind of thing, like individual funds for different local businesses, in Oakland, like I have a former housemate who works at Beauty’s Bagels, and I know they have a fund set up. So it’s kind of like a mish-mosh of small and really focused organizing. For my part, it’s really been limited to media. I really haven’t done much organizing. I should, but I’m trying to help with kind of the more frivolous things, I guess which are not frivolous right now, but like entertainment and things to keep on your eyeball recommendations. Like we’ve added a bunch of films to the film fest watch-now page that we run so like, you know, people can have things to watch. But yeah, I mean, I’ve been fortunate that I can keep working and that I have a few projects like the festival that I’m working on. But the flip side of that is that I haven’t really devoted any mental energy to organizing. 

MU: What have you been doing, have you found anything that helps with kind of the anxiety of what’s going on?

AG: Oh, weed (laughs). People have their work from home routines, they say. So people will change into a different pair of pants or shoes or something. It’s cold, so I just keep on my cold cozy clothes, but I’ll just say okay, I can’t smoke or have an edible before 5pm because I would be working anyway before then. But before 5pm I’m pretty stressed and anxious and looking at my Twitter, but after 5pm I’m feeling okay and mostly playing Animal Crossing, so. 

MU: How is your work keeping track of your hours? Are they doing anything? 

AG: Um, I’m salaried, so.

MU: So they just trust that you were working from 9am-5pm?

AG: I mean again we’re a 4-person company, I ostensibly run the business, so you know, I’m not really tracking our staff’s hours, I’m just paying them. Again, we think we’re good for like a month or two with what we have in the bank, which a lot of businesses can’t say. But I’m pretty committed to keeping everyone whole for as long as we can and you know, I’ll take a personal hit before I start laying people off. So it’s like we’re just paying people like we would, even though we know that the work isn’t really there for all of our team right now.

MU: Lastly, what do you think about how the government responded? Have you been tracking that?

AG: Yeah, I mean kind of like out of the side of my eye, just cause if I focus on it too much it’ll just be a fucking disaster. But I mean, it’s fucking crazy, right? (laughs)

MU: Yeah.

AG: I think you know, mask’s off for the Republican Party, since they nominated Trump, but like the mask is really off now. It’s like no, no they don’t fucking care about anyone and you know, if people die who cares? If it props up the stock market. So it’s like, you know, it’s like self-parody, at this point. It’s like there were those two days where like Mitt Romney was calling for UBI [universal basic income] and everyone was like, “oh we’re going to get checks, it’s just a matter of how much,” and I’m like damn, are they actually going to act responsibly? And that lasted like 2 days, and I was like, you know all this back to work, and it’s a hoax, so not great... I don’t feel great, and I’m worried about the National Guard deployment and I’m worried about the potential for martial law. 

MU: Yeah.

AG: But at this point they don’t seem to want to anything federally really so I think the thing for all the kind of right-wing militia people has always been martial law, right. And during the Obama years, it’s like Obama is going to come into the streets and keep us in our homes under gunpoint and stuff. So like, if somehow that flips and it’s the Republican Administration doing that then they’re really threatening their grip on their base, I guess. And also the same thing for old people, right, they’re saying like just let old people die. Like who’s voting for Republicans but old people? 

MU: Yep. 

AG: So yeah, I don’t know, like I said, it’s mask off for them, they just like don’t care. If they cared about science there would be action on climate change, there wouldn’t be new coal-fire plants. That Dr. Fauchi guy is just like head in his hands, because nobody’s listening to him because they don’t fucking care. So yeah, I mean that’s the biggest take away from the federal response is that they don’t care. Yeah. 

MU: Okay, um, if you can do one last thing which, on that note (laughs), if you can send me a picture, anything that you’ve taken in the last week. 

AG: Okay, yeah, I’ll look through my things, cool. And what’s this for?

MU: I’m making a zine, um that’s about it. It’s just going to be interviews and photos and quotes and stories pretty much, mostly to occupy my time, but also to give people something to read and relate to maybe.

AG: Yeah, yeah, that seems super positive and beneficial and at least, you know, there’s like the whole Shakespeare quarantine thing, at least you can find some creativity.

MU: Well, yeah, I definitely haven’t been, so this is my first try, we’ll see how it goes.

AG: Props, I admire you, that’s more than I’m doing.

MU: Well, you’re watching your movies. 

AG: (laughs) Yeah. 

MU: Well, I hope that everything keeps, you know, goin’. 

AG: (laughs) Alright, catch you later, Mollie. Bye, thanks for chatting.

MU: Thank you, Arlin.

Andrea is an artist and curator who hates capitalism, spending quarantine days pruning tress and planning schemes.

Location: Catskills, NY
Day of quarantine: 19

AS: Well, I didn't realize it was high pressure. I don't know if I would have done it if I would have known that, but alright. Can I be anonymized if I’m embarrassed by myself?

HMS: Sure, but I mean, I think it's going to be you and then like a bunch of random artists and Instagram followers. You'll be fine!

AS: Wait. I'm the only person that's not a random person? 

HMS: Well, no they're mostly not random…but I feel like your answers might be different than other people's answers, which is good. 

AS: Okay, great. 

HMS: Okay, so if there are any questions that you don't feel like answering just be like, “I don't want to answer that.” 

AS: Oh god. I hate this.

HMS: The first question is, how are you feeling? 

AS: Um, alright, I'm feeling good today.

HMS: Good. Great. Are you able to work from home? And if not, did you file for unemployment... this question doesn't really apply to you.

AS: These questions are really... they're very straightforward.

HMS: Well, I think the idea is just to get like a snapshot of like, what's going on with people. 

AS: Yeah, well, I feel like, as a precariously employed art person, I was sort of already always working from home, and also not eligible to apply for unemployment, so not much has changed in that regard. 

HMS: Yeah, I guess your work situation hasn't really changed, but were there like residencies, or I guess you were at a residency, did you end early or did you just come back when it was done? 

AS: I was at an artist residency for the duration of the expanded concern. I was at the residency for the duration of the time that I was supposed to be there and I came home after it was over and the experience of self-isolation at the artist residency really wasn't that much different than what you would normally experience as an artist at an artist residency when you're trying to isolate yourself from the rest of the world and get your work done. So yeah. 

HMS: That makes sense. Cool, good answer.

AS: Okay, I’m trying to be succinct because I know that this is going to have to be transcribed, ya know.

HMS: That's helpful, I appreciate that. Okay. Do you know anyone that has tested positive for COVID-19. Did you have contact with them? Please, say no. And if so, were you tested for it? 

AS: Fortunately this interview is being conducted via FaceTime, because the person who I'm FaceTiming with I know was a potential carrier after being exposed to a floor of humans who may or may not all have been carriers. Um, but actually I know a lot of people who have, all over the world, who have either gotten it or are experiencing symptoms right now and I think the majority of people that I've talked to have not been tested, but in most cases it's just that they don't have access to tests. 

HMS: Yeah. 

AS: So for example, I have some friends in New York who are actually in a play and some members of the cast had it, I think, and as the story goes basically everyone ended up getting really sick and having symptoms from it and one person actually had visited an elderly family member who then passed away from coronavirus, super recently, and a lot of people have symptoms but no places are able to give them tests. And I heard from a friend in Oakland who's an artist that they were trying to get tested because they were having some symptoms, some like congestion, and their doctor checked them out and then said that they couldn't test them, that it wasn't bad enough. And then there's the case of friends who are in places like Sweden. Well Sweden is kind of an anomaly right now because Sweden has this whole strategy of not testing people and really not setting out any sort of restrictions, they're just hopeful that people are culturally more sensitive and willing to sort of self-distance themselves and so they haven't been doing any kind of active testing in general. So I feel like that's kind of the vibe, is that people are experiencing symptoms and can't get access to tests, or you know, in some extremes they’re like in places that are actually like not even doing testing. 

HMS: Yeah, damn. That's wild. People keep talking about how New York's the best place to be, because it's so easy to get tested here, but I haven't heard of a single person getting tested other than my one co-worker, but all my other co-workers that got sick weren't able to get tests. 

AS: Yeah, and I think that it's like people are trying to get some, I know people that are trying to get tests and that are concerned and they haven't been able to and I feel like that's pretty freaky. 

HMS: Yeah, super freaky. Okay, have you been sick at all with any symptoms that could be related to coronavirus? In your opinion.

AS: Um well, I mean, I guess I would say like for me as an immunocompromised person I'm kind of always super vigilant and monitoring my own symptoms and I also have a lot of days that I don't feel well unfortunately, just like on a usual basis, so I think that I haven't specifically felt like I was experiencing coronavirus symptoms, but I've definitely had some days where I haven't felt well and then it becomes a sort of like project of managing my own anxiety and concern and fear because I know that that will advance feelings of not goodness. And I mean when I was at this artist residency, I was walking outside in the cold a couple days and then when I would go inside I’d feel like my lungs would hurt, but then I realized that I had been walking outside in cold weather (laughs). And I'm now living in a home that's heated by a wood stove and that's not always the greatest for respiratory things. So, I think I've been taking super meticulous measures all along to make sure that I have not been exposed maybe even before, since before people were taking it super seriously. But yeah, that's kind of like something that I would do normally, you know. Okay I feel like my interview will be the worst, because I'm kind of like … my life hasn't changed in some ways and that's weird. 

HMS: It's good, because in like 20 years from now when someone’s like “oh what was like the plague of 2020 like?” We can be like actually was totally normal for some people.

AS: Totally, yeah. 

HMS: Okay, what has been your least favorite part of sheltering in place?

AS: Hm, I just want to think about that one.

HMS: You’ve had quite the experience with it.

AS: Yeah, that's kind of why I need to think about it because I left my…I guess sorry, I feel like I need to talk this one through a little bit before it comes out concisely. The thing that's been weird for me is that I think because shelter-in-place has spread so sort of slowly in certain parts of the country, I was in a part of the country that hadn't yet experienced a spike at the time when all the shelter in place started in Oakland and was hearing it from friends and people in Oakland and then it's spread to New York before the place that I was, which was in St. Louis, actually even like, thought that the virus was gonna come there.

HMS: Right.

AS: And so I kind of went from a place where no one was taking anything seriously at all, and I was sheltering in place and everyone was acting as if I was a crazy person and blowing things out of proportion, and then I had to drive like, 22 hours to a place where everything was already locked down and everyone was sort of already sheltering in place and that experience of transition was actually really... it was really scary because I sort of saw, I think I described this to you before, I like drove through five states to get here and I saw how vast the impact of this thing had been and I guess the thing that has been most uncomfortable about the whole thing and maybe shelter-in-place specifically is just the fact that it has taken a while for everyone to take it really seriously. There was a shift from when I was already self-quarantining and avoiding people and having to like really over-explain myself about why I didn't want to be with people and sort of like, I almost felt like I was being treated like a crazy person, like I was blowing this whole thing out of proportion. So it kind of flipped from that to going into a complete state of panic, and I think that anxiety producing impact of that was really intense. 

HMS: Yeah, yeah. Okay, did you panic-buy anything and what was important to you in that process, in preparation for sheltering in place? 

AS: Yeah. Well, I when I was at the the residency I got enough groceries to last me for like, a month, in case I couldn't leave the apartment, and I think the interesting thing is because I have immune stuff I already travel with hand sanitizer, gloves and wipes because I often disinfect the surfaces in the airplane, like on normal days. So that was nice that I didn't have to panic-buy those things, I actually, I travel with a thermometer and I regularly check my temperature, so that I can track my cycle, you know.

HMS: Right, right.

AS: But I think for me, the thing that stresses me out is not having access to fresh produce, and feeling like it’s really unsafe for me to go to the grocery store. That kind of relates to the previous question, where there's this like asymmetry in people taking it seriously and just even on the last day that I went shopping I remember having the experience that a lot of people were sort of shopping in a completely normal fashion and I was having this emotional experience that like, maybe this was my last time in the produce section of a grocery store for a really a long time and I'm going to be destined to have like dried herbs and like, canned spinach for the rest of this. And I think that the translation of the panic for me was really more related to that experience. 

HMS: Yeah, that makes sense. I guess related to that. What have you been eating lately? Anything stood out as like a meal from quarantine? 

AS: Um, I feel like that has not changed. I've been sort of making the same stuff that I normally make. I saw that everyone is making bread, and making their own food and you know, it's like cooking is this new thing. I mean, as you know, I already do that a lot, so that's been pretty consistent. Today I made myself a birthday cake, that's kind of the only thing that's been out of the ordinary. 

HMS: I think that's going to be what your answer is going to end up being. 

AS: Yeah, but I have an immune system regimen and I have been like trying to boost my system. I made some fire cider at the residency with my collaborator and I took it in a used wine bottle in the car with me back home and have been having lots of tea and like mushroom tinctures and zinc and vitamin C and doing a eucalyptus steam in the morning to keep my bronchial system happy. So yeah.

HMS: You were made for this.

AS: A little bit of extra love and support for the immune system, but the rest of the time I'm making, you know, dosas, I made a bunch of ghormeh sabzi today. Did we have that? My favorite Persian dish?

HMS: No, but you have told me about that before.

AS: I made a ton of tamales. Umm, actually, that's a good one, I made like, basically almost a month worth of tamales for the quarantine for myself and my collaborators who were also stuck at the residency. And then we all had frozen tamales to take with us on the road, which was really helpful. 

HMS: Wow. 

AS: Oh, yeah.

HMS: I’ve never made tamales. 

AS: We should do it for sure. 

HMS: Okay, two more questions. What do you think about the government's response to the crisis locally and nationally? 

AS: I mean? Overall? I feel like it's just sort of been predictably unhelpful and unstrategic, like uncoordinated I think that they’re like, well, how do I even like summarize? I mean, I guess on one hand the government hasn't really responded. I feel like the push towards militarization and surveillance that we're seeing from governments all over the world is super scary. There's this kind of movement towards capitalist, industry boosting responses that are offering bailout to industry before thinking about how to really get in front of the extreme healthcare crisis that we are going to face. And I also think that the government response, in a way, it's almost like it doesn't even matter, because this is going to take so many local solutions. I think it's going to have to be a kind of continuous response because this thing is not going to stop any time soon

HMS: Yeah, good answer. Okay last question. What do you think will be different about the world once this is “all over”. 

AS: Yeah, I mean, first of all, I think that question assumes that quote unquote “this” is at any point going to be quote unquote “all over” and I'm not certain that that's a possibility at this point. I don't think we know enough yet about the virus and how it behaves and I know this is giving it a lot of agency but I think it deserves it, as a thing that has single-handedly halted capitalism and brought it, in every corner of the globe, to its knees. I don't think we know enough about it to say how it's going to unfold. Like will it slow down in hotter, more moist temperatures like people say? Does it have the potential to sort of mutate? Do we develop immunity over time? Is it something that a vaccine can fight? Do we start coronavirus season like we have flu season? And I just don't know if we have enough information about that. I mean, I certainly think that the virus has opened a lot of potential futures that people hadn't had mental acceptance or space for before, right? So it's almost like this sort of window is opened for the possibility that remote work is super doable and possibly remote teaching. I've seen cultural programming going online. I have networks of mutual aid that are cropping up, but at the same time I think it's also sort of exposed the fragility of so many Industries and the precarity of so many individuals and populations. It's almost allowed for this kind of sudden rapid reorganization of society that I feel like many people have worked years to bring about - like the idea that all of a sudden there's this openness to closing jails or suddenly sentences can be rushed through, and people waiting in detention are suddenly released. That brings with it an incredible amount of political possibility but I also think it's yet to be seen if it's just going to turn into another set of very capitalist, corporate, monopolized responses. Like who's going to control the vaccine? Who will have access to it blah blah blah. And I mean, I think a lot of people are going to die and that's really awful.

I guess I need to keep going back to thinking about immunocompromised people, cancer survivors. I saw this  meme that was like - I should actually send it to you so maybe you can put it in the zine - but something about how self-isolation’s going and everyone's like, “oh my god, I can’t handle it, it's so so awful” and then it's like cancer survivors are like, “yeah, it's not too bad. It's basically like the other thing without like vomiting and neuropathy and taking drugs and it’s better than that”, right?

I mean, I think that like in a way this also just exposes like the sort of daily experience that a lot of sick people have and the sort of, if it even can be called Silver Lining, like the sort of potential for empathy and understanding that sort of almost like bolsters crip politics in a way is relieving. And I mean, I think this is just kind of a side effect of capitalism and I feel is related to our current condition. Hopefully if people weren't already feeling that it's the most urgent thing to take down capitalism and stop climate change and really rethink the way that we’re living and abolish structures, that now hopefully it’s even more urgent and will bring a wave of super angry people who are ready to tear shit down when it's all over.

HMS: Yeah. Awesome. Well, I'm going to stop recording. 

AS: Thank you. I like how you have a butt right by your head.

HMS: I know…Jeff…

Ramona makes comics and plays synthesizers and wants to be a cat mom someday with her girlfriend Maggie.

Location: San Francisco, CA
Day of quarantine: 12

MU: So many obstacles every time I go to FaceTime you, my boss just FaceTimed me as I was going to FaceTime you and she was like, I didn’t get any of your unemployment stuff. Your filing didn’t go through.

RS: What?

MU: She had given, on the last day I worked, she had given me like the amounts I made every quarter that you need to file and she was like, “let me get those amounts [again] for you and we’ll go through the unemployment again,” so I was just about to do that, but then the phone number that she has for her phone number was the work phone number and you have to... I don’t know, she has to answer. Anyway, she had to answer it from work, and no one’s there. So anyway, it’s just a whole thing.

RS: That sucks, that sounds like a nightmare.

MU: I know, it like honestly has been. The unemployment website just is so, so unprepared for what’s happening right now that it’s been kind of crazy. 

RS: Yeah. I saw this chart of unemployment applications and it’s like normally down here, and then it was like, way off the charts.

MU: Yeah, a million people applied for unemployment like last week or something. It’s crazy. Are you able to work from home?

RS: Yeah, yeah, they locked our office, nobody’s allowed to go in. So I’ve been working from home, and Maggie is too, but they don’t know what’s gonna happen because she works at the Jewish Community Center. But the Jewish Community Center is like totally closed, and her job is planning events and there are no events to plan so...

MU: Oh, she’s an event planner? That’s rough. Okay, I’m pulling up the interview questions. Thank you for letting me interview you.

RS: Oh, any time.

MU: It’s been... it’s been fun. I think you’re the fourth person. 

RS: Sick.

MU: I’ll send you where the zines at, after I’m done. Okay, first, what day of shelter-in-place are you on? 

RS: Um, let me check my little diary. 

MU: Oh, yeah, that’s so cool you’re doing that. Are you doing it every day?

RS: Yeah, so far it’s been every day. I’ve missed a couple days here and there, where I just played video games all day and I forgot. Um, this is day 12. 

MU: Nice. Yeah, I think you’re a little longer than most people. 

RS: Yeah, we got back from our trip and we just immediately quarantined ourselves. Because we were in Greece before, we were on like a big trip and we had to cut our trip short and then like the CDC guidelines were to like, quarantine for two weeks after returning from international travel.

MU: So you actually had to like quarantine, quarantine.

RS: Yeah, we left once to go to Safeway, and stock up on food because we had cleaned out like, everything.

MU: Yeah (laughs) because you were leaving for a trip.

RS: Yeah, we came back and we were like well, all we have is Pillsbury biscuits (laughs) so then we ate biscuit for a meal. Oh my god, we’re like, okay we need food. 

MU: Yeah, is that like the only time you’ve gone? 

RS: Oh, yeah. Yeah, pretty much. I went to the mailbox to mail a check. 

MU: Whoa, wild (laughs).

RS: (laughs) Big moves.

MU: Okay, and you are in San Francisco, I assume.

RS: We are.

MU: Okay, the first question is, how are you feeling? 

RS: Um, I’m feeling pretty good. I had a remote session with my therapist the other day and I was talking about how I feel like I’ve reached the introspective phase of my quarantine (laughs). Like the first like week or so, I was like just like, I was like a little bit excited actually to be like a stuck at home because I feel like only I’m a very introverted, cozy person, and so I was watching my movies and playing my video games and chilling out under my blanket, um, but then after I think day 9 or so I got into this phase where I was like well, like you know, what am I like, doing with my time?

MU: My life? (laughs)

RS: Like yeah, working on getting a new job? Or like I don’t know? Taking online classes or what? So yeah, I was dealing with that for a little while, but now I feel like I’m back to chilling. 

MU: Good. Yeah, I can relate. Do you know anyone that has tested positive, or have you been in contact with anyone?

RS: Uh, yes, actually. So on March 5th I flew to meet up with Maggie, Maggie had been on an international work trip and then we went to Greece together and one of her travel companions tested positive.

MU: Oh and do you know anything more?

RS: Wait, maybe… I don’t know if she was just trying to get tested, or if she tested positive. But her doctor recommended that she get a test I think but yeah, we haven’t heard much since then. 

MU: Yeah.

RS: That’s the only person I know though.

MU: A lot of people just haven’t been tested even if they have it, too. 

RS: Yeah, totally. Well what’s freaky also is like after our trip like we came back from both of us had like a little cold and like neither of us had a fever or cough or anything, but we’re like, I don’t know, maybe? (laughs) You can never tell.

MU: Yeah, and a lot of people have told me that they felt like they had it in December or early January, too.

RS: That’s what I’ve heard, yeah.

MU: Do you have health insurance through your work? 

RS: I do, I do, so does Maggie, we both luckily have insurance.

MU: Yeah. What has been your least favorite part of sheltering in place?

RS: I think my least favorite part so far is that with more time and also with like, so much news happening, I’ve been spending way more time on social media and just kind of drowning in like, worst-case scenarios and horror stories and just kind of opening myself up to all the bad stuff and it’s really freaky and it feels like all I can do is watch this slow motion car wreck and there’s nothing I can do. And I think that has been really emotionally draining. 

MU: Yeah, it’s interesting that Twitter has kind of been the worst part of all of this, but it’s also the only way that, at least for me, that I’ve gotten any information. Besides a few articles here and there but yeah.

RS: Yeah, yeah.

MU: What do you think will be different about the world once this is all finally over?

RS: I think… I’ve definitely been seeing a lot of people talking about this on Twitter, but I started to think that... or at least I hope there will be this big realization that like, so much more change is possible than we thought. Because before it might not have seemed possible to have big social support programs or to have a big community response to something, like for the social good, and seeing some of those things start to happen I think is really encouraging. I mean obviously stuff like the coronavirus relief bill that the government is working on seems like, definitely not to go far enough in so many ways, but even seeing that something like that is actually possible.

MU: Is even fathomable…

RS: Yeah and that we could be doing better, I feel like is really helpful because I feel there’s so many things with social change and political change that people have a really hard time imagining it, because they don’t have many examples to look at it, like having a real tangible example of like, “oh actually all the rules are made up and we can do these things totally differently” – I think it will be super powerful in helping people imagine other ways that things can be better, too.

MU: I feel like I’ve been able to imagine things I couldn’t imagine! 

RS: Yeah, totally.

MU: Like, homeless people being in empty hotel rooms, or like there’s so many... there’s been a lot of positive inspiring things that have happened. Some of these large companies, like Taco Bell (laughs) and then, you know, just a lot of people have been doing really cool shit.

RS: Yeah and like companies starting to change their sick leave policies and their work from home policies and stuff like that, when no amount of whining would have gotten them to do that before. And that’s something that I hope won’t change back when this is over. 

MU: Did you panic-buy anything? Or what did you think was important to buy the one the one time that you went out? 

RS: That’s a good question. So what’s funny actually, as I was preparing to leave for my trip, I was buying some little things, little plastic bottles so I could take like my face moisturizer and and stuff like that, and it seems that literally crazy to say, this is March 26th, I was doing this on like March 4th and I remember thinking should I buy hand sanitizer for the airport? And I was like, nah, it’s probably fine, and I didn’t buy any. And then I went back to the store the next day for something else and all the hand sanitizer was gone, all the disinfectant wipes were gone, all of a sudden I was like oh…maybe I should have bought some yesterday. When we did our one big grocery shop, I guess I did kind of in the moment, maybe my Ramona-spreadsheet brain is kicking in, and I’m like over-buying a little bit but I feel like we actually got just the right amount of stuff. We wound up getting pretty much like two weeks of food, which was great. They were already totally sold out of paper products when we were there, and we only had like four rolls of toilet paper or something like that, so we did get some toilet paper from one of Maggie’s co-workers, which was very nice of her. But I actually feel like I did a pretty good job restraining myself from panic-buying stuff so far, which I think is good. 

MU: Yeah, me too, I could have gone there but I didn’t go there.

RS: Yeah, my dad is like, on the verge of being a doomsday prepper and I feel like I inherited a little bit of his neuroticism (laughs).

MU: It’s definitely bringing that out in people. Yeah, yeah, me too. I was like I better stock up on water, and then I was like, wait why? (laughs)

RS: Yeah, yeah (laughs).

MU: Have you been doing any organizing online, or have you been seeing people doing any organizing or mutual aid work?

RS: Yeah, so I’ve seen people do some more explicit things like organizing spreadsheets with what services you can provide and what services you’re in need of. I know someone in San Jose who was willing to provide bike courier services for groceries items and stuff like that, which is cool. And then I’ve seen a lot of people post digital forms of aid, like little donation drives and threads and form letters for informing your landlord that you’re not going to pay rent and stuff like that. I have been wanting to in my own apartment building, we have some older neighbors who I want to help out with groceries and stuff, but given that Maggie and I were traveling internationally, we still have 2 or 4 days left on our quarantine, so I want to wait until that’s over and then we’re going to go around and ask if anyone needs anything, because like we have a car and we’re young people who also have a little bit of hand sanitizer so we can go out and get stuff. I haven’t been involved directly in anything yet. 

MU: I think helping the neighbors is great. Yeah, I have weirdly a lot of toilet paper and I think a lot of people don’t, so I might offer up some of that. Do you feel any anxiety surrounding the virus and its ramifications? And if so, have you found anything that helps with that?

RS: Yeah (laughs), I definitely do. I I think already spend a lot of time worrying about like, climate change and other large-scale human disasters and so this one I think is just bringing out a lot of my tendencies to like not have faith in our ability to handle things well.

MU: Yeah. 

RS: So I definitely worry a lot about it getting much much much worse than it is now, and worse than we ever thought it would become. I feel like the thing that is helping me is...like seeing evidence of social solidarity, this is kind of a funny example, but there was this video of people like yelling out their window in Brooklyn to passers-by and being like “go the fuck home, what are you doing?” Just like stories of people demonstrating that social consciousness I think gives me hope, because I think that’s also the kind of thinking that we need to go through a lot of the other trying times we have in our future. Like climate change – thinking about the impact of your actions and your life on other people’s lives. But yeah, the more concrete thing that I think has helped is I got Animal Crossing and I have been playing a lot of that and there’s no coronavirus on my island in Animal Crossing, so…(laughs)

MU: It’s really been getting people through this time, that’s great. And actually next question, how do you feel about the government’s response to this? And have you been following that? 

RS: Yeah. I mean, that’s actually the reason that I started on my coronavirus diary, because it’s like everyday so much stuff was changing that I was like, I literally just, I can barely understand this myself, I have to take notes or something.

MU: And you’re a smart person!

RS: Yeah (laughs) I think it’s been pretty disastrous on every front. The biggest thing is the transparency around the number of cases, the data and the severity of how bad it could go. Like, I really think a good person in charge would be able to kind of help people understand on a large scale that the numbers are small now, but this is how quickly it could get out of hand, and this is why we need to have more visibility through testing and expanding testing programs and make that really accessible. People compare the US government’s response to the government of South Korea, because we had our 100th case on the same day.

MU: Oh, I didn’t know that.

RS: And their growth curve is really flat now, like they’ve got it under control, and that’s because they rolled out so much testing that they had free drive-through testing paid for by the government, which took like 10 minutes. That’s the kind of thing that we need. Because if you don’t have the data you can’t make decisions. So I think that’s the thing that’s been most frustrating for me, but I think it’s been pretty piss-poor overall. 

MU: Yeah. What would you say is the biggest shift in your life since the pandemic?

RS: Um, I think one thing I’ve been really appreciating is being able to kind of slow down in a lot of respects. Definitely physically, obviously I’m just staying in my house, but also just like in terms of being able to… I feel like I have a tendency to, if I have an unexpected free night or something at home, Maggie’s busy and I’m just by myself, I’m like, okay, what is the most fun thing I can do or like the most productive thing I could do or the most whatever.

MU: Yeah, got to make it count.

RS:  This is an opportunity, I have to use this opportunity to make it count. And I feel like I’ve been a lot better during this quarantine so far. But yeah, I’m exhausted because the world is scary and I’m worried about a lot of things and I’m really tired and also I’m jet-lagged and I’m just gonna not worry about, you know, making this Monday the best Monday that ever Monday’d. And I’m just gonna tend to my village in Animal Crossing and like, cook a nice meal. I think that has been nice and restful. 

MU: That’s good, that’s great. What have you guys been eating during your quarantine?

RS: Well, we have this really great vegetarian cookbook, it’s The America’s Test Kitchen Complete Vegetarian Cookbook or something. So before we went shopping we went through and like, picked out a bunch of yummy sounding stuff from that. So like we made lasagna one night, we made enchiladas. I actually made like a whole schedule. 

MU: You’re so organized (laughs).

RS: It even has our leftovers and everything. We made bibimbap bowls. 

MU: That’s awesome, sounds so good. 

RS: Yeah veggie sausages and roasted vegetables. We’re big fans of this like tuna pasta salad stuff that we make, we call it TPS, so we’ve had a lot of TPS.

MU: TPS, love it. Yeah, it’s been a good time for cooking. 

RS: Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. 

MU: What are the positive aspects to sheltering in place? I know you said already kind of slowing down and just not having expectations. Has that been the best part?

RS: Yeah, I think that’s been really nice. I’ve been reading a lot of romance novels, that’s good (laughs). Spending time with Maggie is nice. I feel like it’s also kind of fun to... I think my perception of what it means to be friends with someone is like, oh you go get brunch, you go get drinks, you go hang out, you go to all these things which are also things that involve spending money, spending a lot of money, and so it’s nice to be like, hey, let’s watch this movie together, let’s play this game together, lets, you know, just talk on the phone and kind of I don’t know explore other ways to like… connect. One thing that’s funny about Animal Crossing – which I know I’m talking about a lot – is that when you travel to see each other’s villages it’s actually really hard to communicate, the in-game chat is like really slow and it’s hard to type out messages, so you end up communicating by giving each other presents and like running around your town and it’s a really funny slow, way of communicating that I really enjoy. 

MU: That’s beautiful. 

RS: Yeah.

MU: That pretty much wraps it up. Um, do you mind sending me a photo or two from the last 12 days, of anything at all? To be included.

RS: Yeah, totally. Cool.

Ryanaustin is an Oakland-based art worker and writer.

Location: Oakland, CA
Day of quarantine: 21

MU: Okay, the first question is, how are you feeling? 

RD: I’m feeling good. I mean I felt a lot more calm and relaxed right now. I think we talked about this one time, one thing I have said to people is I feel like I’m in this weird mourning and grieving period I’ve been going through, it’s just like something’s lost. I think I lost something.

MU: What is lost?

RD: I know, like, is it my belief and our economic system completely is gone? I think grieving over that, which is a good form of grief I think, because now I’m like, oh wait, we can have something else, which is kind of nice. 

MU: Yeah.

RD: And I’m not angry. It’s just like, oh, okay.

MU: Like thinking about things differently, for sure. 

RD: Yeah, there’s not as much anxiety as I thought I was going to have, now I kind of see what to do, or see what to do next. So, that’s my vibe. Acceptance.

MU: Acceptance, I love it. And are you able to work from home? 

RD: Kind of. It’s like this weird space, so I was kind of working as a cook at the restaurant, and then now that’s kind of whatever, so I’m doing programming and producing I guess basically, programming stuff for them. And so they’re going to give me money, but I think I’m going to probably turn in some stuff this Monday, but then after that I’m going to file for unemployment because I just mean, I don’t want their 200 bucks basically.. I need more money than that, and it would be nice just to have free money, to be honest. I feel like I worked my ass off enough...

MU: Deserve it. 

RD: That I want to feel stability for a little bit. So yeah, it’s… it’s complicated.

MU: Do you know anyone that’s tested positive for COVID? 

RD: Whoa, I don’t. When I really sit down and think about it, no one in my life actually has it.

MU: No one has access to tests either...

RD: (laughs) I know. I feel like I did have it at one point, like earlier, like right when shit was really going down.

MU: January, you think?

RD: No, like two weeks ago. Cause I feel like I got it….you know what it was, right after the McEvoy Foundation thing. 

MU: Oh.

RD: Literally like the day after my body crashed, like I got these kind of like fevers flu symptoms. I don’t know if I was just getting sick, or my immune system was just tired because I was doing so much stuff and I was just stressed, but like something happened and I quarantined myself basically for like 5 days and then within that time shit just escalated while I was at home. And so I feel like I got better, I had like mild symptoms, and so I kind of kept them in check and just … which was nice because then I’m glad that happened, because that meant whatever I had I just didn’t spread to people. So yeah, maybe me, I’m the person I know (laughs).

MU: Do you have health insurance?

RD: I have, what is it? Medi-Cal? I have that.

MU: Hey, better than nothing. 

RD: Yeah I know (laughs).

MU: What has been your least favorite part of sheltering in place?

RD: Um, the content farm and mass hysteria sometimes, and the disinformation, seeing all that, that’s like not cool. But personally, like nothing, I really like it. I’ve just been able to connect with my roommates and talk to people, and I don’t know, I like this slowing down. 

MU: Yeah, yeah.

RD: I mean the worst thing is just of course work, like paying rent, thinking about paying my day-to-day stuff and like, how am I going to save money? That’s kind of stressful, but I feel supported, so I don’t know. 

MU: What do you think is going to change about the world after this ends?

RD: Oh my god. Um (laughs)... I think people are actually going to... I think the American populace or whatever are really gonna have fundamental... we’ll have to go back to the drawing board of what the American dream is. I think people really gonna be like that’s not real and...

MU: The veil has been lifted a little bit on some shit.

RD: Oh, no, it’s been snatched (laughs).

MU: (laughs)

RD: The veil’s been snatched! It is gone! (laughs). Like you would have to be like, sticking your head in the ground to not see the writing on the wall, but this point we have a social system that literally hates poor people, and not even just poor people, not even working people, middle-class people, you know, like we fundamentally do not support, and we have no bedrock for people to stand on. And it is like, we voted people in office that will literally take away those things, and then tell us not to want more, and that... and hopefully people will have a realization and then come to a deeper consciousness or awareness of what type of society people actually want to live in. And it doesn’t have to just be the me me me thing, everyone should have certain things. I don’t know, and it doesn’t take away from you. Like I feel like everyone thinks, just because someone who makes less than them gets money without having to work makes what they do less valuable, and I don’t think that’s true. 

MU: Exactly, exactly.

RD: Like you could add on value, like if you want to go out in the world and do something you can, I mean, that’s what makes this country great, but at the same time you should also accept the fact that everyone should fundamentally have certain things like: housing, shelter, medical, access to medical things, education, like just really basic, universal things.

MU: Super basic things.

RD: So hopefully people are like yo, fuck these business men, these people don’t care. Like the level of inequality is to the point now,where it’s just like aye, yeah, bad, just like bad. Like what’s this excuse for letting this happen? I think people just should be angry.

MU: Yeah, I mean and they’re pulling trillions out of nowhere which is...

RD: Yeah! And saying we can’t have these things.

MU: Yeah! We still can’t have these things.

RD: And we still can’t have these things! Even with the money trillions of dollars. You’re telling me I can’t have these things. Like no, it’s a different set of rules, It’s literally a different set of rules and that’s not fair. It’s wrong, it’s fundamentally wrong.

MU: Did you panic-buy anything? Were there any supplies you felt necessary that you went out to get?

RD: What did I panic-buy? I have this thing where I like to buy meat and freeze it for a long time. That’s like my weird panic-buy. Buying ground beef, or like chicken. I’ll just buy that. That’s like my weird panic-buy binge thing. Other than that I was like we live in a developed world, like we’ll have groceries, we’ll be okay.

MU: We’ll be okay. 

RD: Yeah, and not panic-buy toilet paper. Which is such a strange thing to panic-buy... 

MU: Yeah, it was everyone’s go-to, strangely enough.

RD: I think there’s some weird Freudian thing we could talk about, like, with people’s anuses and shitting. There’s some weird psychoanalytic shit I think with Americans and waste, so I think… someone needs to write.... maybe I’m the person who needs to write that think-piece (laughs).

MU: Do it, do it. Are you, I mean aside from it sounds like you have some anxieties about money and work, do you have any other anxieties surrounding the pandemic right now? 

RD: I’m scared that it’s going to go back to being the same thing.

MU: Damn.

RD: Like, hopefully after this there will be certain things that people won’t take anymore. Like at every level, after this I hope like, queer people don’t take any more shit or like women don’t deal with just…like POC folks, like we just don’t take any more like...literally like from now on just like just give me the thing.

MU: That I deserve. Yeah. 

RD: Deserve. If they’re going to bitch slap us with this shitty bill that they just passed, like I’m not taking any more, I’m going to art strike, I’m going to art strike, I’m going to do certain things, I’m going to be way more aggressive, like even more aggressive around the things I think everybody needs.

MU: That’s actually my next question, what kind of organizing are you doing or hope to do?

RD: I think I’m gonna just do more art, like just be more fundamental… there needs to be like a bill of rights for art workers, and people working in arts. Just be like, this is the standard by which we make and do and produce things…Or just being like I’m not working for this, I’m not doing this, I’m not working, you will not get any more labor out of me unless I get this thing to happen. And I’ve been thinking a lot about that recently, it’s like, I just need to figure out what’s the next step. Like I have this idea right? But now I’m like, how do I kind of call those people around it or just like follow the leadership of different people. Because sometimes I realize it’s not about what I want to get people to do it’s like okay, what can I plug into that’s already doing the work?

MU: Yes, there are already people on the same page.

RD: Yeah, a lot of people are already thinking and doing, it’s just now, I think now that this crisis has hit I think there’s going to be a lot more energy, like I think a lot more joyful, joyful militancy around it. So yeah, I think that’s what I’m going to do. I’m just trying to plug into that stuff more, also I never really saw myself as an organizer or that “political” or “activist”. I get very scared of that word activist, because it’s like... I thin particularly now with how Instagram and Twitter and all this other stuff, how people can kind of virtue signal in very specific ways, and I’m scared of being...I just don’t want to be…I’d rather just like, do it and not be too virtual signal-y. Or just like, I’m trying to figure out what that line is, you know, and just support people and do it right, just be the change, I guess. Yeah.

MU: Would you say that that’s the best aspect of sheltering in place, the shift of consciousness? 

RD: Oh yeah, mhm. Yeah, like again, I was like, slow down. It was funny, I was talking to Justin too…

MU: Oh yeah, he’s a busy bee as well. 

RD: Yeah, and we were just talking about how it kind of gave both of us some space to be like, who am I? 

MU: What am I doing? Yeah.

RD: Yeah, like what am I doing? Like now I have a reason, what am I doing? Who do I want to be? And what’s my next step in life? Because this is a chapter, this is a chapter for everybody. It’s kind of nice because everyone after this can be like this has changed me, or won’t change me, but it’s still a thing that people have to like, pass through.

MU: We all went through... worldwide.

RD: Yeah, worldwide, it’s like a giant filter we all went through, I don’t know (laughs).

MU: And then last question: Can you summarize the government’s response to this? 

RD: (laughs)

MU: (laughs) 

MU: Can you explain what you’ve been seeing and reading? 

RD: (sighs) It has been dangerously incompetent, and woefully understated.

MU: Go off!

RD: (laughs) And on both sides, might I add, the Democratic and the Republican side. As a person I guess who would identify on the left or as those the TV would say “progressive left” (laughs), I am literally stunned at the level of just, fuckery. So yeah, we gotta vote. I mean if people haven’t seen it now... I don’t know what else… like this has also just made me more civically minded, in certain ways. 

MU: Mhmm. 

RD: I think one thing I will say is that our generation, of the “millennial” generation will be very... when we finally get into power, in the ways that we will, eventually. We will… there’s so many... there’s so much... I’ll put it this way, there’s a generation of leaders that are literally being sidelined that will literally take us to where we need to be, and I’m very excited about the possible futures that are available to us once that leadership is given the opportunity, or just takes it, and I feel like they are taking it, and I feel like what’s going to happen is, because we have such an unresponsive federal government at this point, I think at the state and local level there will be a lot of radical building happening, I think. And I see it, I see it with a lot of the mutual aid projects and some of the nonprofit stuff.

MU: People even younger than us. 

RD: Yeah just doing it, without the validation of certain institutions, and I feel that our generation will definitely be like, we don’t need these big things to validate that what we’re doing is right, but we do need the resources, and they need to understand what that means, and that’s the critical gap - what’s going to happen is people are going to age out, or age into these things, these roles.

MU: Both, yeah.

RD: So I mean that’s how I feel about it, and like, just finding a mentor... I mean, just find a mentor who kind of gets it and can show me the ropes, because I was like do I even like this one either? I’m like, do I even want to do art? I want to be in policy now, in politics, cause this is so bad (laughs).

MU: It’s hard to watch... it’s hard to watch.

RD: It’s like hard to watch.

MU: Yeah, well, that’s... that’s really positive, I think, and yeah, we will end on that note. Lastly, can you send me a picture that you’ve taken since your quarantine? 

RD: Oh, okay.

MU: Of anything.

RD: Of anything? Cool. I might send a picture of my garden.

Michelle is a digital content creator and founder of The Seoul Search and Papier Margiela.

Location: Los Angeles, CA
Day of Quarantine: 15

HMS: Alright. Are you ready? Uh huh? Okay. Okay, so starting off. How are you feeling right now?

MC: Honestly, I feel like I'm handling this whole COVID19 situation way better than most people. I’m living my best introvert life. Just chilling at home, hanging out with my cat. Like it's pretty good, not stressed at all. 

HMS: That's great. That's really good to hear. I'm actually having a similar experience where it's just me and my cat and I'm like, gardening and going on bike rides and cooking. Parts have been like, super nice. 

MC: Like introverts are thriving right now. It's just, my heart goes out to my extroverted friends that are suffering.

HMS: Yeah, that's real. So are you working from home or did you file for unemployment? It sounds like you're in school? So what's the at-home situation?

MC: So I'm actually fortunate enough to be able to get my income through YouTube and other social platforms. So while that has been really great and viewership has been going up, the work from home load has increased quite a bit because I'm currently in the process of creating a series of calculus lectures for my audience because I know that the school from home is just crap and I can't imagine having to learn math from home. So I've been doing that in addition to all the other things that I’m normally doing. I own a small stationary brand and that supply chain has just kind of been a headache due to manufacturing problems. 

HMS: Well you're doing a lot it sounds like but that's cool that with the YouTube stuff the viewership is going up. I guess that makes sense. That's awesome. 

MC: So yeah, I feel good because I have such a large audience. I think we're at about over 65,000 people right now and I feel like it's my social responsibility because I know that majority of my audience are college students and people who are younger than me, at the very least I can provide some support. Because I'm not a medical expert and I can't, you know, 3D print swabs or do crazy medical things but at the very least I can provide calculus lectures, like I can help someone get through their degree because I used to be really bad at math and I can't imagine what it's like to have to learn math online sounds kind of scary to me. 

HMS: Yeah calculus was hard enough when I was like in a lecture hall. 

MC: Yeah. So like, how's it going to be through Zoom? Not good. 

HMS: Totally. Well, that's awesome. Great job. Do you know anyone that has tested positive? And did you have contact with them? And if so, were you also tested? 

MC: I fortunately do not know anyone that has tested positive. So for all intents and purposes, me and my immediate family I feel like we run through very similar circles so it's been okay. And I also haven't experienced any racism or xenophobia, but I also think that's because UC Davis is a very Asian-centric university and also the city of Davis is a very progressive like People's Republic, you know. I've been really fortunate but I have friends that live in New York who have been like, yelled at on the subway and I'm like, “what’s the point of that, who does that help?”

HMS: Yeah. I know. It's been pretty bad here I think for a lot of people. 

MC: Yeah, and I'm fortunate enough that people know that I'm Korean. So I haven't been getting racist comments on my social media platforms either because like at least I'm not directly connected, I'm just adjacent, you know, in terms of neighboring countries, so it's been ok but also, it's so silly that we're placing blame on an entire group of citizens that really had no choice in the matter. It's not like it's their fault that they have corona because it was one misjudgment in terms of like, purchasing animal goods and like, I don't think an entire nation should be blamed for that.

HMS: Yeah, it's wild. It sounds like you haven't been, but have you been sick with any symptoms that could be related to coronavirus and if so, did you have to get medical treatment? 

MC: Fortunately. No, I've been weirdly not sick at all for the past six months. It's really good. 

HMS: That is really good. I've been in New York for like 3 years almost, I was in the Bay Area before, and this was the first winter here I like didn't really get sick and I was like, oh my god awesome I'm getting used to living here, and then this stuff hit and it's like okay, fuck. 

MC: Yeah, and they're estimating that 70% of the population or some ludicrous number like that is going to be getting corona and I'm like...I want to be special and not get it. 

HMS: Stay inside. 

MC: Yeah. I will. 

HMS: Okay, do you have access to health insurance? If you do get sick.

MC: Fortunately I do but it's because I have UC Ship. I’m currently at home for spring break and I'm actually just driving back to Davis because the UC Ship radius of coverage they extended it to about a hundred and sixty five or seventy five miles. And unfortunately, the city of Thousand Oaks is not in that 175 mile radius of UC Ship. So I'm like I would much rather be in a place where I have access to (a) cheaper health insurance and (b) like some of the best medicine the world has to offer. And that’s at a research institution, right? 

HMS: Yeah, totally. I actually hadn't thought of that, like all of the students that have University issued health insurance that were sent home from campus. 

MC: Yeah, it’s wild. It's like now you have to pay a premium because you’re out of network and that's ridiculous.

HMS: Yeah. Okay, this is a good question for you as someone that's enjoying quarantine. What is...oh wait. No, this is not that question. Nevermind. What has been your least favorite part about sheltering in place?

MC: I think my least favorite part is that I actually made a New Year's resolution to go out more and like be with my friends more and now I've had to rearrange that mission I have for myself by being the first person to reach out to my friends, by being the one that initiates the texts and the calls, and as someone who's a very big workaholic it's really really really difficult for me. Because right now is the prime time to be a workaholic like I'm trapped at home. There's nothing to do. I might as well create things. Yeah, so finding work-life balance has just been a really big struggle for me. 

HMS: Makes sense. Okay, I'm gonna skip ahead so that you can answer the opposite. What have been the positive aspects of sheltering in place for you?

MC: I feel like the best part about sheltering in place is that now I feel like I have all this time. I think the best part really is the fact that the school is now online. Not that I went to lectures anyway, sorry mom, wasting that tuition money but now that I have all of this newfound time, all of these creative ideas and explorations that I've wanted to pursue for so, so long I finally have time to do and I know that this is only because I'm in privileged enough position where I don't have to necessarily worry about student loans, I don't have to worry about paying rent because my income is made passively, through the internet. And I know that this isn't a situation for everyone but I'm so so so grateful that I'm able to have this privilege and experience it and because I know that I'm in that special location I feel like it's my job and my responsibility to at least provide something to the global community during this crisis. So having lots of time has been so lovely

HMS: No, I totally feel that, you can do a bunch of stuff that you had put on pause while regular world stuff was happening. I feel that, cool. Okay, what do you think is going to be different about the world when this is “all over” and I'm putting all over in quotations because who knows what that looks like?

MC: So this is like my armchair economist thing. I have a feeling that when corona is over we're going to have like what is essentially a “post-war boom” in big fat quotes specifically in pharmaceuticals and entertainment because after World War II we cared a lot about making weapons and the Space Race and our complement right now is big pharma, like big pharma is going to get even bigger, health insurance is going to definitely be restructured in a way that we haven't seen before and I know that the arts and entertainment industry is going to boom. Because right now the people that are helping us get through this, it's not the tech bros, it's not the coders, it's the artists and the creators that are making things that are worthwhile and interesting and I have a gut feeling that we're going to have a whole generation of students who have been very ill equipped with learning resources. I have cousins right now that are in third grade and sixth grade and they go to school from 8 to 11. That's 3 hours of learning and they're not learning anything new, because their teachers can't create a brand new curriculum that they spent a whole year refining now to be put online, especially when they have their own concerns and their own problems. So it's like what do you do? So I feel like we're gonna have a whole generation of students that have just been put on pause for a year and need to catch up and I'm concerned about how that's going to affect the way college works for those students and employment, especially employment. But I'm kind of glad that I don't have to blame myself for unemployment. I can blame the economy. 

HMS: Yeah I like that answer, that touched on a lot of different things. 

MC:  I've been thinking about it a lot because I'm like who's going to fare the best after this and it's the people who hustle now, and so that's why I'm putting it all this work and trying to do as much as possible because there will never be a time when the entire world is put on pause and you can pursue every single one of your passions.

HMS: Totally, totally such a good point. Okay, did you panic-buy anything? What was important to you? Like right before shelter in place was going into effect, and you knew it was coming, what were you thinking about? Like I have to get this before everything shuts down.

MC: Honestly nothing. I actually I'm a little bit ill-prepared. There's a lot of food that I want to make that I don't have groceries for and I'm like, oh, I don't want to go outside, so I guess I’ll have instant noodles for the 4th day in a row. But I feel like it's really hard for me to get swept up into mass hysteria just because I'm such an inherent skeptic. But I know that as soon as I'm out of my one roll of toilet paper it's going to be some serious bartering with my neighbors. 

HMS: I hope that doesn't come too soon for you. 

MC: Dude, me too. 

HMS: Okay, have you been engaging with or getting involved with any organizing or mutual aid work at all?

MC: Um, well I'm a part of this Facebook group called Asian Creative Network and it's just a Facebook group for Asian creatives. So I've been trying to help support a lot of small businesses that are specifically Asian run because I know that they're getting hit the hardest and then also the calculus videos. I'm actually made a whole freaking website for it, it's called “Math with Michelle,” and my goal is to be able to receive enough donations and external support, because right now I'm funding it by myself, to be able to hire like displaced undergraduate students with enough of a calculus background to be able to host virtual office hours and to hire displaced graduate students to help me build a curriculum. I essentially want this to be able to be a fully functional nonprofit kind of like Khan Academy, but instead of Sal Khan's soothing voice it's like this bright sparkly Asian girl telling you how to do math.

HMS: Love it. I hope you get all the funding you need.

MC: Dude, me too. Because right now my wallet is like stop spending money. 

HMS: Yeah 

MC: ...like shut up this is for the common good.

HMS: Other than instant noodles, and maybe that is your answer, but what have you been eating lately?

MC: A lot of Korean food actually, because I'm at home with my parents I like to show off all the things that I've learned lately and the biggest thing that I've been making constantly is, I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's the trend called dolgona coffee which is like that Korean whipped coffee. 

HMS: Ooh no, I haven't. 

MC: Yeah, it's instant coffee and sugar. So it tastes like instant coffee and sugar but it looks really aesthetically pleasing. I made a video on my YouTube channel because I follow a lot of Korean YouTube and I'm like, oh, I'll try this and I'm like, oh this is fun. So I made a video and then it ended up being referenced in a Vice Munchies article and a Refinery29 article and I'm like, oh my god!

HMS: Wait, wait, what's your YouTube channel? 

MC: Um, it's The Seoul Search, it’s my Instagram handle. 

HMS: Okay, I'm gonna go check out your videos after this. That's rad, one of one of the people in Irrelevant Press is an editor at Vice and she has a lot of friends in the Munchies department. 

MC: That's so cool. You know what, if they ever need someone to host Asian cooking things let me know!

HMS: I'll let her know you're interested…Do you feel any anxiety surrounding the virus and its ramifications and if so, how have you been dealing with those anxieties while quarantining? 

MC: Every once in a while, I'll have one of those moments like what if my government, my federal government, is so incompetent that America emerges from this chaotic viral mess like….it’s like a shitshow and I'm not religious but the Serenity Prayer really comes to mind. Like there are things that are out of my control and I can't do anything about that, but I can choose how I react to that situation and I just need to learn to be more chill and accept that this is the state of the world as it is and I can't do anything about it and that is how I'm getting through this time. 

HMS: Yeah, I totally feel that. I'm taking a very similar approach, it's like I will watch the news or listen to a podcast about what's going on, then I'll freak out about it and then I'm like, I have no control over this, there’s literally no point freaking out about it because you just can't do anything,

MC: Exactly. Like I can't choose how Trump decides to call coronavirus horrible racist things, like I can't get upset at the fact that there's a Republican majority. I just know that my California state government will do the responsible, high-quality thing and use that rainy day fund and use that budget surplus to help reinvigorate our economy. I feel bad for the rest of the United States because California is doing a really, really good job at the current situation, like I gotta say California gets an extra gold star. 

HMS: Noted. That's good you feel confident in your local government. New York's kind of a shitshow...

MC: Yeah, I heard the governor of New York just really popped off. He was like what the hell – stay the fuck home.

HMS: Yeah. I don't know what's going on with him, honestly. Anyways... 

MC: You could always come back to the Bay.

HMS: I know, so I my sister lives out here in New York as well and my brother goes to Wharton in Philly and they both went back to my parent’s in Davis and were like fuck this being on the East Coast in a city thing, let's go to my parents. My parents have a farm in Davis, so they're all like planting vegetables and not leaving the house. 

MC: That’s the most Davis thing I've ever heard, that makes me so happy.

HMS: I know, it's so funny. Okay, who was the last person that you saw outside of your home? So not the people you're quarantining with.

MC: It was my friends during finals, which was so sad. We had online finals and we had assignments and were studying together and that was really nice. But after that happened, we all parted our separate ways and decided to do the responsible thing of social distancing, but I miss my physics boys.

HMS: So did UC Davis like pull up finals? So you're just done with school for the rest of the semester?

MC: They did online finals and then my professor decided to be like extra AF and do Zoom finals like Hooman Rashtian, I love you in case you ever stumble upon this footage but like bro, come on, I did not want to bust my ass that hard for your class, especially at the end. But we're doing spring quarter online. 

HMS: Oh, I forgot you guys were quarter system. 

MC: Yes, and fortunately I'm a part-time student this quarter and I only have one real class I have to take so I just feel bad. A lot of my friends are in Engineering and they were at the end of finishing up their senior design, but it's like you can't Easy Bake Oven PCBs, you know, so like what are you gonna do. And all of these students may or may not have to stay an additional year because all of their labs were canceled and that's a lot of money. That's so much money so my heart goes out for them.

HMS: Yeah, that's wild. Are you a physics major? 

MC: Yeah!

HMSL Cool? Very cool. I did biology. 

MC: We love women in STEM! 

HMS: We do, we do! Okay, what would you say is the biggest shift in your life since the pandemic?

MC: I think that I feel a lot more responsibility now to be a voice of reason for my community. Technically I am a social figure, like a public figure, so I feel like I was juggling with what that really meant and whether or not it was something that I even wanted to pursue and then in this time of crisis I realized that I kept getting these comments where people are like, oh I'm watching your videos because they make me feel less sad, they make me feel less stressed, and I'm like well, I have to continue and I have to be that voice of calm that acknowledges that things happen that but it isn't the end of the world. So that has been like the biggest change in my life where I just feel a lot more social responsibility to be sharing accurate information and to just be a calm voice of reason within this screaming chaos. 

HMS: Totally. That's a pretty good shift I would say. That’s positive.

MC: I hope so and I hope that the people who are more prone to anxiety or the people who are less sure about what all of the implications of covid-19 are feel a little more informed and a little less scared by participating in my content.

HMS: Yeah, totally. That's great. Okay, the last question, we kind of already talked about, but if you have anything to add, what do you think about the government's response to the crisis on a local, national, international however, you want to answer it kind of way. 

MC: So I have nothing to say about our federal government because I actively do not keep up with what's going on because it's bad for my health, it's bad for my heart, it's bad for my spirit. So I'm like, you know, what I'm done with it, California has really strong state rights so I'm going to just be really plugged in and informed at what Gavin Newsom is doing and he is doing a 10 out of 10 job. He's really young and I don't think that he was an incumbent or anything but he has really risen to the challenge of the California wildfires, plus the shooting in my hometown of Thousand Oaks that happened, plus this. So he has really proven himself to be a fantastic governor. And if he chooses to run for re-election this man definitely has my vote. And just because I'm plugged into South Korea, because I still have some family members there, that country really knows how to roll out testing. I love that universal healthcare and the fact that they only have 19 new cases to report today, like what the hell? That's an incredible job. And I wish that the United States was (a) small enough and (b) had a much more comprehensive and extensive medical resource for us to be able to do these things. But I know that's just a logistical error and it's not possible for everyone. So, you know what? At least we can have an example set by other countries.

HMS: Totally. Yeah. Well awesome those are all of the questions. Thank you so much, those are really good answers.

MC: I love talking about it.

Laurie Oberholtzer has worked as a city and environmental planning consultant for over 30 years. She lives in the small rural town of Nevada City, California, where she has served as Planning Commissioner, City Council member, and Mayor.

Location: Nevada City, CA
Day of quarantine: 14

MU: Your interview spot. 

LO: How’s that?

MU: Nice, you look very presidential.

LO: (laughs) They did a city council meeting, on Zoom or something the other night… It was so bad, it was really bad, you can barely hear them, you could barely see them. Yeah, they need to work on it. 

MU: The quality is pretty bad. I’ve been doing a lot of FaceTiming and it just...it’s not great. How’s the weather? That is my first question. Is it still snowing? 

LO: No, no, no. Well, it kind of rains for a day, and then there’s hail, and a little sludge. Yeah, it’s just been really cold. It’s gonna rain for the next couple days. It’s gonna be okay next week. 

MU: It’s been cold here, but apparently it’s going to get warm, so that’s good. 

LO: Yeah, that’ll make this whole thing a little more tolerable. 

MU: I know right.

LO: You can go easily outside and do something.

MU: I’ll email you a PDF or something when we’re done. Does that sound good? 

LO: Sure. 

MU: Okay. Okay, let us begin. All right, the first question is, how are you feeling?

LO: I feel fine. It kind of comes and goes, you know. I’m up here in Nevada City, so we’re in a rural area and so we only have six cases on our side of the county, and nobody knows who the heck they are, so it’s all very unreal. But you know, we’re all very socially conscious up here. So everybody is acting like we’re in New York City, I mean everybody is following all the rules, nobody visits with anybody else. 

MU: That’s great.

LO: And everybody, you know, goes out to the grocery store or the hardware store or the legal places to go, but everybody’s really careful about wearing their gloves. 

MU: Masks?

LO: Not so much masks, some masks, I think a lot of people don’t have masks. And we keep being told that masks aren’t worth while anyway, but everybody’s wearing the gloves when they go out and they’re trying to only go out when they absolutely have to like not go to the store every other day but go once a week and just being really religious about not visiting and everything’s shut down. So, you know, we have Grass Valley and Nevada City, our little downtowns, and they just have you know, cute little shops and restaurants, it’s completely shut down.

MU: Wow. Everything is closed?

LO: Completely vacant. There’s not even a car or person walking around downtown Grass Valley or Nevada City, it’s really weird. But then the shopping area, the Brunswick Basin, that has all of the big grocery stores and the fast food restaurants and banks, it almost seems normal there, except people wearing gloves and masks. Because they’re allowed to go to those places, and that’s where everybody’s going, so, but I’m pretty much just staying at home and trying to really religiously not go anywhere. I mean, we all feel like this...somehow we can help if we really, really follow the rules even though it’s not a big issue here yet. Except that we all have adult children and their friends who live in hot spots.

MU: Yeah, true. 

LO: And so we’re all really worried about you guys. But we also just feel like we need to be positive. We’ve come out of bad things before, and we had recessions, and everything will be fine and I do feel that way. But every once in a while it creeps in, I worry about you guys, if the recession lasts for very long as a result of this, but hey, the federal government honestly can print money forever, did you know that? They are really allowed to do that, and that really is how they handle these things, so we will be okay (laughs). 

MU: Yes (laughs) I’m learning that.

LO: The Federal Reserve can print as much money as they want. 

MU: Are you able to work from home? What does that look like to you? 

LO: Yeah, Steve and I, we both already worked at home, so it’s no different. But you know, there’s not as many people calling us because they’re on reduced work time or they’re not at their offices and everything just doesn’t seem as urgent. And it’s hard to keep…even though I’m still kind of doing the same thing every day, it’s hard to keep a disciplined structure, because you know, everything feels so weird that it’s hard to do your usual schedule. 

MU: Totally. I definitely feel that way. So it sounds like you don’t know anyone who’s tested positive? 

LO: No. I don’t even know of anyone who has tested positive. 

MU: And do you and Steve have health insurance? 

LO: Yes, but, so don’t tell anybody this, except now I’m on your video, Steve and I are, I’m 65, and Steve is 66. Can you believe that? I can’t believe it. So yeah, so we have Medicare, and before that we had good medical insurance through UC Davis Medical. So we don’t have to worry about that at all.

MU: Good. What would you say is your least favorite part of sheltering in place? 

LO: Just that feeling that you can’t go anywhere you want to go at a moment’s notice, it’s kind of like having your car broken down, you know. And that’s probably the thing that bothers me the most, but I really do worry about the coming recession, people out of jobs and all of that, but that all still feels a little unreal to the me, because mine hasn’t been affected and I don’t know, just since we’re not seeing people very much at all. It just seems unreal that that’s really happening. But I’m sure you know, down where you are it’s pretty obvious.

MU: It seems to be increasingly so, yeah. 

LO: Yeah after you don’t get a couple of paychecks. 

MU: Yeah. Well, I mean, rent’s coming up on the 1st, so things are going to get a little weird. Um, what do you think will be different about the world once this is over? 

LO: Well, I think the financial ramifications will last for a while. I do think we’ll bounce back from that pretty quickly though. You know, because the federal government is together on this, they’re not going to allow us to go into a deep recession if it’s at all possible. But I think it’s going to take a little while to get out of it, and that’s going to be a little depressing, and I think that for a few years there’s probably still going to be little spikes of this virus because it just can’t completely go away. So, I don’t know, I’m pretty pollyannaish, I think we’ll bounce back pretty well. 

MU: Good. What do you think about the government’s response to this? How do you think everyone’s been dealing with it so far? 

LO: I think they’re doing a pretty good job on the financial end, and I don’t give Trump any credit for that, I just think all of the legislators know that they can’t let the country dive into a Depression. But I am worried that they’ll back off of it too quickly. From the health standpoint, you know all the regulations, because I think that the trick to killing it is just to really be tough for a couple months so that the virus will just die, otherwise the financial ramifications will be a lot worse. 

MU: I know, people are eager to get back to it, for financial reasons. Which is scary. Um, did you panic-buy anything? Or when you went to the store did you do anything differently? 

LO: No, I mean Steve’s been going to the store. I mean, I’m sequestered here. I go out for walks in the neighborhood and I have driven around this part of the county a couple times just to see how things are looking. I went to a memorial service the day before they said we can’t go out anymore, and that was a little bit weird because you know, the crowd was large, but it would have been larger if people weren’t worried about the virus, but I had to go because the person who died was so special and I did feel kind of uncomfortable being in a crowd at that point. But it’s been 14 days, and so obviously we didn’t catch coronavirus from the crowd. But yeah.

MU: So you’re on day 14?

LO: Yeah, 14.

MU: Day 14, and Steve hasn’t bought anything differently it doesn’t sound like?

LO: No, I mean Steve and I are 65. It does seem like older people take it in stride a little bit more because we’ve seen so many ups and downs over the course of our lives, even though we don’t feel that old, and Steve of course is so even keel and he just doesn’t see any reason, he just thinks we should follow the rules and do whatever it takes to get over this and getting all upset about it isn’t going to do us any good. Then every time I get a little bit that way he says, “oh, that’s not gonna do you any good.” And I’m like, you’re right.

MU: (laughs) That’s really funny. What would you say is the biggest shift in your lifestyle since the beginning? I mean, it sounds like not leaving the house has been the biggest shift for you.

LO: Not leaving the house, not having lunch out a couple times a week, that’s a big shift – this feeling that you can’t go up to Portland and visit if you feel like it at the drop of a hat or you know, get on the train and go visit you guys, you know, that is a big deal. You just feel...

MU: You just feel I’m a little powerless.

LO: And then you start feeling like well, when am I going to be able to see my family and friends? 

MU: Yeah. Have you been able to socialize with people? Talk on the phone? 

LO: Yeah, we’ve started a little…for the first week and a half all of us old people, we just kind of text a lot, and now we’re getting tired of that. So I’ve had a couple of conference calls and you know, FaceTime things, so we’re starting to feel like we need to actually see each other, but everybody really feels like it’s not okay to get together. Even a lot of people won’t go on a walk with somebody other than their housemate, because they’re worried that you know, hey, the rule is we’re just not supposed to get together.

MU: Yeah. 

LO: So, so yeah, definitely people are getting more and more isolated. It would be weird if you were living completely alone. I’ve got Steve.

MU: Yeah, I agree. Are there any positives to your sheltering in place? 

LO: I would say no. 

MU: (laughs) That’s fair.

LO: I think if you had kids and all of that it probably would be nice to hang out together, kind of like being on vacation for a while, but you know for me, the novelty wore off after about two days. 

MU: Yeah. 

LO: You know, we’re cooking more, that’s the big thing, and that is actually kind of fun. 

MU: Yeah, me too.

LO: But I’d rather things just get back to normal. I mean, it really makes you appreciate our jobs, how crummy they are, we even like our crummy jobs. 

MU: (laughs)

LO: I just want things to be the way they were, and I hope that when this is over that all of us will appreciate our lives and our jobs and our school and our whatever we do more, for a long period of time but you know, people forget pretty quickly. So do you know that story about my great-grandparents who died in the 1918 flu epidemic? 

MU: No, I didn’t even know that. 

LO: Yeah. So in our family I’ve always tried to relay that to people a lot like I would tell the kids you have to have a flu shot because your great-grandparents died of the flu epidemic. And they were about 30 years old and they were kind of upper-middle class in Long Beach, California, and they had three kids who were about, you know, 8, 10 and 12, or… I don’t know, they were all under 12 I think because they must have gotten married when they were about 20. So they were pretty little kids, and they both got the flu and they died. And so they were about 30-32, and her younger sister, the mom’s, my great-grandmother’s younger sister in Long Beach, who had just gotten married, had to finish raising the three kids. And she went on to have two of her own kids, so she raised these 5 kids together as though they were brothers and sisters really, and so one of them was my grandmother. 

MU: Wow.

LO: So it really changed their lives, and it was something that we knew about growing up and so it’s one of those reasons why I think vaccines are a good thing.

MU: Definitely. 

LO: Because, you know, in our family history there was a big change that occurred because somebody died of a big epidemic. 

MU: Yeah. Have you been seeing anyone organizing local or not local, doing any mutual aid stuff for sharing resources?

LO: There’s all kinds of stuff happening around here, young people that are organizing volunteers to help with the food bank. 

MU: Oh, good.

LO: And people that are organizing making sure that everybody knows which stores are open, and which stores have takeout food, and oh just all kinds of things. I have a friend who knows a young man, who he’s known him for this young guy’s whole life, he’s probably in his 30s, the young guy, and he’s always had problems and he’s semi-homeless all the time, and he got him a local hotel room to put him up in during this whole thing, so I’ll probably contribute some money towards that. So there’s you know, very individual things like that happening and more organized things happening, it’s just that kind of a community.

MU: Yeah, it is. And are you guys having any mortgage freezes or relief? I don’t know, is that for all of California? 

LO: I’m not real clear, I think that’s for all of California, the mortgage or the rent...Well, I don’t know what’s happening statewide because it doesn’t affect us. But our local city councils have put a moratorium on requiring rent of people who are being affected, whose income is being affected, and then they get 60 days to pay it back and they’re probably going to increase that because everybody was kind of realizing 60 days isn’t enough. So yeah, so there’s basically rent assistance. And I guess I think the mortgage thing is a statewide thing, so there are certain banks that have said you don’t have to pay your mortgage right now, you just pay it back later, but our income isn’t being affected. Since I work for a nonprofit organization that does all their fundraising in November, I’ve got money to pay my salary for a year. Now a year from now, people might not be donating as much and we might be affected then. And Steve, he’s a hydrogeologist, so there are a lot of jobs he’s working on that are considered essential jobs, and so those contracts are continuing because they’re groundwater cleanup, that sort of thing, so our income isn’t affected. But because of that we will be able to help either of our kids who end up having any problems  financially. It won’t be any problem to help them with that, and I think there’s going to have to be a lot of families that just help each other out. There’s no way around this. Of course Wyn is completely virus proof. His job is completely virus proof because he works for a grocery store. 

MU: Yeah. 

LO: He’s like working overtime and getting hazard pay. But you worry, you know, he has so much exposure to the public.

MU: Yeah, of course.

LO: You worry that, you know, that he could catch it.

MU: Well, he’s young and healthy. 

LO: Yeah, he’s young and healthy, that helps. I’m old and healthy.

MU: Also good (laughs).

LO: I had my pneumonia shot a couple of months ago, maybe that’ll help.

MU: It can only help (laughs). I think that is everything. Oh, the last question is can you send me a picture that you’ve taken in the last 14 days, of anything, during your quarantining? 

LO: Okay, like a typical picture of some sort?

MU: Yep, whatever you want. It can be anything. 

LO: Okay, I will. Okay, how are you doing?

MU: I’m.. I’m good. It was definitely a strange adjustment.

Edit 3-29-20:

Hi Mollie. I feel like I sugarcoated how I’m feeling about the crisis yesterday when we talked. So I’m speaking this into the cellphone so that it will still sound like natural speech. Hope it’s not too long, but this way maybe you can save it and it will be basically already transcribed. I do feel like I sugarcoated it yesterday. My job is to be positive. What I really feel is sadness that the whole world is going to be negatively affected by this and we will all end up knowing somebody who died. I’m mad at anyone who is not pitching in 100%, or is breaking the stay at home rules. I want everything back to normal and I appreciate so much more how great and vibrant and fun we are as a people and a country even with all of our imperfections. But I do genuinely feel that it’s really important for all of us not to allow ourselves to go to a dark depressing place because that won’t do anybody any good. Even though the reality is I am heartbroken over how this is affecting all of our kids. Particularly the 20-somethings who are just starting out. And of course particularly my kids. What they’re having to experience now and what they can expect in the future. 

It just breaks my heart. And there is nothing I can do to help but listen. No amount of financial help or advice will help. It is just profoundly sad. In reality I am getting no joy in any daily task. Nothing seems important. Fussing around the house and in the yard seems trivial. But I know I have to hold myself together for Steve and the kids. Steve is really good at not letting bad thoughts come to the surface. And as usual he is holding the whole family together financially and emotionally. What a rock. I’ve learned from my parents that it is really important to be an example on how to handle things to the younger people. So I’m working on it. This must be like World War I combined with a 1918 epidemic plus the Great Depression was like times 10. I do remember my grandparents talking about it and the stories of how they got through it. Particularly my Jensen grandfather who had a very sunny Danish disposition. And my Oberholtzer grandparents who were very shoulder to the grindstone. We have to have that same can-do hang together attitude to get through this and I believe that we will all go for it with great energy when this is over I sincerely believe that it’s my rule to be positive and supportive without being a pollyanna, but it’s hard. A few typos. Sorry! Thanks for doing this.

Sadaf is an educator and artist serving POC creatives of Brooklyn through her agency, Alpha Arts Alliance.

Location: New Jersey
Day of quarantine: 20

HMS: How are you? How's Jersey?

SP: I’m good! I’ve just been here in Jersey, with my fam, watching the debacle that is New York. 

HMS: It's getting so crazy here. 

SP: Yeah, I kind of saw it coming. Which is unfortunate. 

HMS: My parents keep texting me like freaking 

SP: Do they want you to leave?

HMS: Yeah, they do. I mean all of my siblings went home, but I'm kind of like, I have my cat. I would need to work, and I could feasibly work from California but I would be a three-hour time difference, it would just be a pain I feel.

SP: In my head I was like I never get this much time to be with my parents. 

HMS: That's true. I mean, that's why my parents want me to come home because they're like you have literally nothing to do like, come hang out with us. 

SP: Yeah, but it’s about where you feel most comfortable to be honest. Cuz you’ve been careful, you’ve been in the house.

HMS:  Yeah, I guess I kind of got lucky that I had to quarantine for 14 days because it just made me get used to it off the bat. I didn't have a choice. But yeah, I don't know if you saw our neighborhood has this Slack group called Bed-Stuy Strong and it's like all these like elderly folks and folks that can't leave their house because they're sick or whatever can reach out to this group and then they have people in the neighborhood deliver them free groceries. And there's this whole GoFundMe set up, and so I did some grocery delivery today, which made me feel good.

SP: Awesome. You did it or you got groceries? 

HMS: Like I delivered it for somebody. But it was pouring rain, which I didn't think about and I was on my bike like, wait what am I doing? 

SP: Don’t don’t you have your car?

HMS: No that’s Sarah's car. She also did a grocery delivery today in her car, but it's cute to see the neighborhood help each other with stuff. 

SP: Uh-huh. 

HMS: Anyways... are you ready? So the first question is, how are you feeling right now?

SP: Well rested.

HMS: Good. That's a great answer. 

SP: Yeah. 

HMS: Okay, great. Are you able to work from home? And if not, did you have to file for unemployment?

SP: Mmm. I'm not able to work from home because work at a gallery, I also host events and I've been trying to file for unemployment but the system has crashed the last five times I've tried and I've tried to call the phone, but it's overwhelmed so I haven't been able to get through for two weeks. 

HMS: Damn, yeah, you are not the first person to tell me that, which really sucks. Actually Mollie who's part of Irrelevant Press as well, she filed and it seemed like it went through and then a week later her boss reached out like “hey, I never got any notification that you filed for unemployment, like are you not going to do that?” And she was like, oh what like I thought I filed, I'd been waiting for it to come through, but it was just like the system just crashed and she didn't know.

SP: Yeah, that's what I think is happening. 

HMS: It must be happening to so many people which is scary. Okay. Do you know anyone that has tested positive for COVID-19? And did you have contact with them? And have you gotten tested yourself? 

SP: I do know a few folks who have gotten it and I've learned of that through social media. Not anyone I've come in contact with. There are a few people that I do think were sick that didn't get tested. But yeah I do know a few people who have it. My guess is more people are positive but they don't know if it's COVID or not cuz they can’t get test.

HMS: Yeah. No, that's I think that's really real especially here in New York where it seems like it's super hard to get tested. Related to that, have you yourself been sick at all with like any symptoms that you thought could be related to coronavirus 

SP: Two weeks ago I developed a really bad sore throat. Actually I was sick. I think I chatted with you that day actually and it was right after I spent time with someone like in close vicinity the day before and we both were feeling sick the next day and that was scary. It ended up being, I think it was strep throat, but I wouldn't be surprised if the virus is taking form in different ways. So I had a really bad sore throat, chills and fever but no congestion, no shortness of breath and it resolved itself in like two or three days, but I kept myself in quarantine two weeks after that. 

HMS: Yeah. That's interesting. I actually had very similar symptoms. Well I didn't actually have a sore throat, but I had a fever but just for like two days and then I was super congested so I just assumed it was allergies because that's not really a symptom but the fever was weird and I had really bad headaches for a couple days 

SP:  Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it's just taking form in different ways in people, you know, and not manifesting fully. 

HMS: Do you have access to health insurance in the off chance that you do get sick?

SP: No. When I went into the freelance world last year I lost my benefits and I haven't gotten health insurance since and I was in the process of that, but I don't have it.

HMS: Damn, well, I am crossing my fingers for you that you don't get sick. 

SP: Yeah, you have it?

HMS: I do, through work. Luckily. Yeah. 

SP: Okay. You wanna get married?

HMS: Yeah, actually I could claim you as a dependent. I still have a couple of days to add people to my insurance I think. 

SP: Yo that would be so funny. 

HMS: Okay. What has been your least favorite part of having to shelter in place and quarantine? 

SP: There were some gallery shows that people and a lot of artists were really excited about that I was really excited to open. So that's just kind of been a bummer, projects that people were looking forward to being on indefinite hold and then the second is, and this is totally privileged, but having too much time to sleep. Like, I'm just feeling tired but when I go to sleep I'm not tired. I just force myself to go to sleep because I feel like I don’t have anything else to do.

HMS: I actually totally feel that but I also am feeling it with things like eating too, where I'll go like hours at a time and won't have eaten and I'm not really hungry because I haven't actually expended any energy because I’m not doing anything but I'm like I should eat another meal because one, it’s going to pass the time and two, it's a normal time to be eating.

SP: Yeah. See, that's how I treat napping. I'm like, ah, like the other day, I was like oh great I didn’t nap today and then I realized I did, I just didn't nap twice today. 

HMS: Oh, what a weird time.

SP: Another thing, and I don't know if this aligns with the question, but my parents both work in the medical field and so each day they’re going in and are exposed, soon they're going to be opting in, my father's opting in to work in the ICUs because his procedures have been suspended for now. That's been hard especially because my mom's facility is not providing the same precautions that my father's is and so I’m just concerned that they will be safe. 

HMS: Yeah that’s super real. Damn. That's really scary. 

SP: Yeah, so we have to stay in quarantine from each other even though we're all home because they're exposed everyday. So that's been a bummer, I've been home for two weeks but I haven't even been able to hug my parents.

HMS: Yeah damn. How are they dealing with it? Are they okay?

SP: They are really generous and I think that if they had the option of staying home versus going to work, they’re going to work. But my mom is really tired. She's working long, long hours and I think even as people who've been working in the medical field for like three decades, I can see that they are processing a lot of shock at the state of how things seem to be going and a lot of dismay around it. Like, they're reading the news and learning information just like I am each day and we're discussing how many people are sick in New York and how many ventilators there are, you know, I can just see that even though they're experts in the in the medical field that there's still a lot of information that's unknown

HMS: Yeah. It's like on the one hand, obviously the the folks in the medical field are the best kind of people to have to be on the front lines right now because they're trained to be super selfless and just like give themselves up for their work, which is really just taking care of people, but on the other hand, it's like this whole thing is so unprecedented and with like a virus that there's no vaccine for it's kind of like you're having to like learn what to do like while you're doing it which must be super scary and crazy for folks working in that field.

SP: Yeah they're fully clothing like from everything from hats to like full sleeves but even then, you know, they're stressed.

HMS: Okay. Well if it's possible to imagine like an end to all of this, what do you think will be different about the world once this is over? 

SP: I've been thinking about how this virus is...how different populations, particularly those who have homes versus those who don't, how it's affecting people differently and I hope that when this is all over people have more sympathy towards those who didn’t have the privilege of sheltering in and having food and stuff. I hope that we see more generosity. I have seen a lot of generosity around this. You said what will be different? I think that I also think that people will overall be more hygienic and cautious in gathering spaces. I hope. It’s propelling a lot of work into the digital future. A lot of people are activating online and transferring things into our virtual context and I think that I think that will carry through. Perhaps not to the same degree but you know podcasts were already on the rise and stuff like that, so I do anticipate there being more digital integration for work. But if I'm being optimistic, I would like to see more socialist practice from our government. 

HMS: Yeah. I know. I keep going back and forth between like this is going to really upend like on a political level how we approach community, society, politics and like maybe this is going to be some sort of end to capitalism and a shift towards socialism but on the other hand, I'm like as soon as this is over everything's just going to reopen and we're just going to be like forced to forget about it because like life is just going to have to go back to normal right but I don't know. I don't know. I guess we’ll see.

SP: I don’t think we will go fully back to normal because I think we also have to anticipate there being a resurgence or another outbreak like next year. 

HMS: True yeah, I could definitely see that happening.

SP: I also think Trump is kind of pushing xenophobia against Asian folks and so I'm hoping that that won't be a shift we see into the future.

HMS: Yeah, absolutely. Um, what have you been eating lately? Has anything like stood out as like a meal or snack? 

SP: My parents home cooked food! So my dad makes breakfast himself every morning but he's been making one for me too and leaving it out when he goes to work. Yeah. So every day I wake up and there's like a naan with two fried eggs in it. 

HMS: Oh, that’s so sweet

SP: So I go up and get it and bring it back down. 

HMS: Love that, naan with two fried eggs 

HMS: Okay. Are you feeling any anxiety surrounding the virus and its ramifications? And if so, what have you found to be helpful in dealing with that kind of anxiety? 

SP: Yeah. I mean I've been really job hunting prior to this and I had had two interviews lined up that have both now been indefinitely like hiring has been placed on hold for those organizations and so that's really disappointing because I was really banking on that and like on securing a job this season after having spent like a few months working on Alpha Arts Alliance. But a benefit is that I have had time to finally put towards working on my website, having conversations around expanding digitally, which I had been having trouble finding time to do when I was getting caught up in like going meetings and going to events and living in New York. 

HMS: Totally. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

SP: And I also think a positive ramification is just like people check in with folks, people check in with people.

HMS: It's true. Yeah. It's like I'm having so many more conversations with folks that like, yeah life like living in New York, you just don't get around to some of this stuff sometimes and it's really nice to see people step up, reach out, or just like even receive you reaching out, which is good. You're right. There are some positives. It's true. 

SP: Yeah, and another positive ramification is that there's like literally no FOMO for anyone right now. 

HMS: So true. That's funny you say that, I don't know if you saw the BUFU cloud party?

SP: Yeah! 

HMS: Are you gonna go? 

SP: Yeah

HMS: Cool. I'll be there

SP: What’s is on? Is that on Zoom? 

HMS: Yeah it’s on Zoom

SP: So everyone can see each other? How are they gonna to that? There’s gonna be mad people?

HMS: I know. Okay, but I think that like whoever is running it will mute other people.

SP: Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I mean I was on a Zoom call the other day and I was funny. Yeah, I had some people requesting like how we can do a jam session online, but I actually I'll just send you a series that I'm starting: once a week an interview it’s called “Heart Talk” and it's an interview with a self-made POC artist and I want to carry it throughout post-Corona or AC, after Corona. 

HMS: [laughing] Holy shit. Yeah.

SP: So I'll send you my lineup, it’s going to be cool. 

HMS: Love that it’s like a podcast? 

SP: Yeah, it is and I'm gonna use do it through my Alpha Arts Alliance Instagram so I can kind of drive traffic and expand my network during this time. Yeah, I like strategically partner with folks that have big followings.

HMS: Smart. 

SP: Yeah, my graphic design skills are getting better. So that's another highlight. 

HMS: Nice. That's good. That's also very important. Okay. Who was the last person that you saw or like hung out with or interacted with outside of your current quarantine conditions. 

SP: Zamy and Zaven.

HMS: Who are they and what did you do?

SP: They're artists or musicians in New York. Zamy and I drank tea on the stoop and Zaven played his guitar while I don't know I probably scrolled through Instagram. 

HMS: That's beautiful. 

SP: Yeah. They both just came and chilled with me at my house.

HMS: It's nice to remember what we were doing before we were all locked up.

SP: Oh but that was actually during quarantine, I just allowed them into my quarantine. Mmm. What was pretty quarantine? 

HMS: I don't remember the last time I hung out with a large group of people. 

SP: Oh, yeah the last gathering…I’m like that that one was cancelled and that one was cancelled.

SP: What month is it? Oh, I was on this panel with an organization called Women to the Front for women in media, and it was like 15-20 people there kind of sharing their creative work and practice and that was cool and they had free breakfast and I got to hold a baby the whole time I was on the panel. 

HMS: Wow, that is probably never going to happen again...holding babies. 

SP: I’ll send you a pic. I was really longingly looking at the picture the other day.

HMS: That's actually a really good thing to bring up because we want to include like people’s pictures that they've taken during quarantine or not during quarantine that they feel like would be a good supplement to the interview. So that's perfect one if you're willing to share. 

HMS: Okay, great. And then the last question is what are you thinking or feeling about the government's response to the crisis either locally, nationally, internationally, however you want to respond to that. 

SP: It really reminds me of the Titanic. I think that there were so many adequate warnings to allow for better preparation, making sure they had certain equipment making sure certain things were set in infrastructure that were just kind of ignored because they probably felt invincible. And now we're suffering the consequences of it. And I even now there's clearly discord between the state government of New York versus the national government. Trump even rejecting the request for all the ventilators I think is just so negligent. He's not a medical expert at all and I think people are going to suffer. What's crazy is like America's considered a superpower, but now we're literally in a position where medical professionals are going to have to choose like whose life is literally worth saving. And that's crazy.

HMS: Yeah. Yeah.

SP: Like my friend lives in Haiti that there are medical professionals coming from Haiti to help the US. The irony of like third world countries sending aid. 

HMS: Yeah. That's a really good point.

SP: I can't say I'm surprised. And I don't want to say it's deserved because no one deserves to lose their life, but not surprised. 

HMS: Yeah. It's um, it's like this is a time when you just need to like concede your power to the people that actually are, you know, professionally qualified to come up with solutions and like Trump is not the kind of person that's willing to ever concede power to anybody else, which I think is probably like his arrogance is probably like a big factor in the response on a national level, which is really horrifying. 

SP: Yeah for sure. 

HMS: Well, thank you for that.

LP is a queer artist living in a short bus, founder of Solidarity Press!

Location: Raleigh, NC
Day of quarantine: almost 20

HMS: We might not get through everything and if you have to drop off at any point, just let me know, that's totally fine. But I'm just going to dive in and feel free to shop, okay? So the first question is, how are you feeling right now with everything going on? 

LP: Um, I'm trying to not be overwhelmed, but overwhelmed is like the general feeling that me and my partner have both been feeling. It's hard to try to stay informed but also not go into absolute panic mode. So it's just incredibly overwhelming. Uncharted territories, new waters. 

HMS: Yeah, I totally feel that. It's like you gotta find that balance between staying informed but also maintaining solid mental health boundaries. How has your work situation changed? I guess you're doing Instacart right now, which is good. But were you doing anything else before? Are you working from home? Did you file for unemployment? Anything like that? 

LP: Well, I actually I had quit my job a month before this all went down to go travel. So I have a short bus I'm living in currently and my plan was to travel and do this kind of work, like Instacart and DoorDash, all that kind of stuff, just to make supplemental income but it's been incredibly hard to prepare myself mentally to do right now. This is actually my first time doing [Instacart] since quitting my job. I had a small reserve of money, which is quickly running out. I kind of had to do it now and I'm not excited about it. I'm very scared. So it’s kind of changed my work but more mentally than physically. And I haven’t filed for unemployment yet because...I don't know why, I just haven't got around to it. I think it's nerves, you know, like going through the process is just really scary to me. 

HMS: Yeah, I mean the site's not working for a lot of people. I know there's somebody in our collective that filed and it never went through and so she was expecting it this week and it never came. It’s a shit show.

LP: Yeah my partner’s in the process of doing it now and it's just been one hurdle after another. 

HMS: Yeah, totally. Okay, do you know anyone that's tested positive and have you had contact with them at all, were you tested if so?

LP: So I don't know anyone personally. I've heard of family friends or what not, like people I know of but never really met or anything, but luckily nothing so far. And as far as I know I haven’t been in contact anyone.

HMS: Good, that's good. Yeah, I haven't actually been directly in contact with somebody but someone at my work tested positive, but they didn't tell us who it was so I don't know if I actually interacted with them they just told us you just have to quarantine and I was like alright well I guess I was going to do that anyway.

LP: Terrifying. 

HMS: Have you been sick at all? Like with any symptoms that you thought potentially could be coronavirus?

LP: No, I've actually been feeling pretty good. I usually have allergies this time of year, but luckily that's not even been an issue so far. My partner did have a scare a couple of days ago where they were feeling kind of feverish and just an overall not well and I was kind of freaking the fuck out about it, but it turned out to just be being overheated and not drinking enough water and they're feeling fine now, so that's good. I hope nothing is going on, but I guess more time will tell.

HMS: No totally. I had to scare where I think I also was just like overheated and dehydrated as well.

LP: It’s just so scary because the symptoms are so common.

HMS: Like the paranoia and the anxiety are giving people symptoms. So do you have access to health insurance on the off chance that you do get sick?

LP: Um kind of, so I was living in New York and so had the the New York State Emergency Health Care thing, like a city PHP, but it's running out soon. So after that, I'll have to figure something else out and I don't know if that's even possible at this point. So yes and no. 

HMS: Well I'm crossing my fingers that you don't get sick.

LP: Same. Ditto.

HMS: What has been your least favorite part of the whole quarantine situation?

LP: I don't know really, I don't really go out a whole lot anyway, I'm more of just like a stick to my routine person or whatever, but since we moved into the bus to travel and go to parks and stuff and it's like that's not happening. Yellowstone shut down, some of our favorite places we can't go to, so we just kind of feel like I guess we'll hang out with family for a month or so, just to see where the bounds are. But I guess it's just like the worst time possible for it to happen, and that's kind of been my least favorite part about it. The feeling that you have to stay inside, even going on a walk feels scary or sketchy and it’s just super isolating. 

HMS: Yeah. I know really the worst time for you to want to go and travel around the outside. I'm so sorry.

LP: Yes. I know it happens. What I'm gonna do? 

HMS: It doesn't happen! This has never happened to us like this before!

LP: You’re right, this has never happened.

HMS: What do you think is going to be different about the world, about your life, once this is all over, whatever “all over” looks like for you. 

LP: I guess as far as my life goes hopefully there's just a sense of taking better care of myself, like putting myself first, because that's what I feel this has kind of taught me. As far as the world, I really hope that it teaches everyone something about capitalism and how capitalism is the worst thing on Earth and it should be completely dismantled. But I don't know if that's very likely. As far as what this being over looks like, I have no fucking clue. It's unprecedented, you know, like I don't think anyone will really be okay afterwards. I think there will always be that survivor mentality, but not in a good way. I don't even know what that really means but I don't think it'll be positive. Kind of pessimistic about it unfortunately right now. 

HMS: Yeah. I know. I'm in the same boat, I keep going back and forth between being like “oh, yeah everyone's going to understand all the qualms that people have with capitalism and maybe we'll see actual political, systemic changes or we're just gonna be gaslit into thinking that everything’s fine again and we're just going to go back and people are just going to be scared.” 

LP: Yeah, even Teen Vogue wrote an article about how things can't be the same after this. Like if Teen Vogue can fucking get it, we should all kind of get on the same page.

HMS: Teen Vogue’s radical now, it's awesome. 

LP: It’s awesome! Like it's so cool. 

HMS: That's funny, ok when you were getting ready for quarantining or sheltering in place or whatever that looks like in Raleigh, did you go out and panic buy anything and if so, what were the important things that you needed to get access to?

LP: So I wouldn't say we panic bought, just as we were on a super limited budget, we couldn’t really afford to do that. But we made sure that we had a bunch of rice and a bunch of dried beans and all that kind of stuff and luckily we were in Portland, Maine when it all started, so we were able to buy bulk and didn’t have to worry, we could get literally pounds and pounds of stuff, but it was mainly just food stuff and stocking up on water, because you never know. So we had our giant water reserve in the bus and  filled it up entirely and then bought a couple more gallons after that and stashed them away here and there. But I tried to avoid stores until basically now. I just didn't think it was worth it honestly.

HMS: Totally, I'm with you. 

LP: It’s all just kind of a depressing, like I'm here now and everyone just looks very lost. 

HMS: Yeah when I was just at the store everyone had gloves and masks and a lot of the shelves were empty. 

LP: Yeah, it is still like that here. That's not good. 

HMS: Okay. Well you've been traveling around a lot so I don't know if this one necessarily applies to you, but have you been doing any like organizing or mutual aid work or are you involved in any community support stuff? 

LP: I wouldn't say direct action, it is kind of hard to do that kind of stuff while traveling unfortunately. It's something that I've been really wanting to do, so I've been trying to look more towards the online and reaching out to friends, obviously making sure friends are good and any little amount of money I have I'm trying to give to people that need it, but mostly just family and friends. And just kind of trying to prepare a network for when this is over. I'm in the process of becoming an IWW member and trying to just get into different groups and stuff. Before this was happening I was doing a little zine distro, so I rebranded that and am trying to start anew with a better focus. It's actually been kind of nice to have a little bit more time to slow down and think about the zine stuff and create plans and talk to people about different ideas. That part’s really nice. So it's given me more of a fire than I've had in a little bit.

HMS: I feel that. What was your zine distro before Solidarity Press. What's your other one? 

LP: It was Over Easy Press. 

HMS: Oh cool! 

LP:  Yeah. It was just super small, mostly stuff I made and a couple of my friends and I tabled little festivals here and there but nothing crazy, but I wasn't really feeling the name anymore and then I was like, all right let me just see if a rebrand would spark some sparks and it's working so far, I feel good about it. 

HMS: Well, I'm excited to see what comes from that. What have you been eating lately if anything’s stood out as your quarantine go to. 

LP: It's been a lot of avocado toast. I know, the most typical millennial answer. I found a new love for it, it's fucking delicious man. Some chili powder, like damn. Nothing better.

HMS: Oh, yeah, I love that. On my last day at the office I had to go in a day after everyone else was sent home and there were just a shit ton of avocados left, so for the first week of quarantine I was eating avocados for every meal because they go bad. You have to just eat them!

LP: And you have to eat them in a day or two or else they're completely wasted so it's just like avocado eggs. Avocado meatloaf. 

HMS: Haha avocado meatloaf.

LP: I had it for lunch like literally 20 minutes ago. I had like shit prepackaged oven meatloaf and I was like, I'm just gonna put an avocado in here and see what happens. Delicious. Fantastic. 

HMS: Love that for you. Okay, I guess we kind of talked about this a little bit already, but do you feel any anxiety surrounding the virus and its ramifications and then if so, any tips or any advice that you’d give to folks that are also dealing with anxieties around it, anything that's been working for you?

LP: I think the anxieties are kind of hard to put into words. They're kind of a general feeling, just the feeling of will things be okay ever, like this might never get better. And what's really helped me with that is just kind of treating the neighborhood like it’s the jungle, like really starting to appreciate the natural aspects of whatever neighborhood you're in. Wherever you take a walk, listen, see what you hear. Now is especially a good time cause there's no one else around, there’s not so many people out so you can actually hear stuff, stuff that you haven't been able to hear in a long time. It's that and like Skype dates with friends. Really just trying to treat the downtime as a positive thing. Reading a lot, I’ve been reading Emma Golden's autobiography and I'm in love with it, it's amazing. Trying to keep your mind occupied really, so you're not just like playing Animal Crossing and watching TV or whatever. 

HMS: Ok...called out! 

LP: I don't have a Switch so that's why I'm jealous. It's just jealousy!

HMS: But no that's true. I've been doing a lot of things like that. It’s kind of like the world is on pause a little bit so you can catch up on the stuff that you maybe didn't prioritize before 

LP: Totally, like I'm talking to friends I haven’t talked to in years, just like hey, I wonder how someone is doing, I hope they're okay and they're like, oh also, I've been doing like really cool stuff. 

HMS: That's a positive for sure. Who is the last person that you saw or engaged with outside of the folks that you're quarantining with.

LP: It was my friend Daniel. He lives in Asheville, North Carolina, my best friend and we went out to a bunch of bars and had a great time. So I really enjoyed that, that was like the last hurrah kind of. I look back on it really fondly right now. 

HMS: Nice, you made the most of it. Good job. This is probably an interesting question for you because you kind of made a bunch of life changes while this was happening, but what would you say is the biggest shift in your life since the start of the whole thing? 

LP: That loss of freedom, you know, I made these life choices to have more freedom and then it was quickly sucked away. So it's kind of just the idea of oh, I can't just go to a local bar or can't go to the bookstore I want to go to or there's this cool radical space that was having a bunch of events. Nope. Not anymore. Just that kind of stuff, that's probably been the biggest shift. Other than that, I'm in a house with family and it's been a long time since it hasn't been just me and my partner and friends. But an established family, that has a routine and three meals a day and that kind of shit. I’m not used to that yet. It's kind of nice but kind of weird too, to have that balance again for the first time since being a kid. It kind of feels like I'm a kid again but in a weird way. Now I’m sneaking a cigarette on the back porch or something late at night. It's super weird. 

HMS: Weird, I feel that. Okay last question. What do you think about the government's response to the crisis? Like locally, nationally, internationally. 

LP: Um, I think that they think they're doing a great job. It's just silly. It's silly the measures they put in place...like they knew this shit was happening probably a year ago, like a long time ago and nothing was really talked about. It kind of feels like they're placing a lot of blame on the people versus the systems that are in place but the systems are supposed to be here to help us with these kind of situations, you know, like the number of doctors, the amount of available resources for everybody. How many people have a garden, or have a community garden even? It’s just kind of sad and silly. I feel like there could have been so much more put in place so much earlier and we maybe we wouldn't even be in lock down right now. It would just be like oh cool just don’t high five anybody and you’re all set, but instead it's like, okay lock yourself in your house for three months. Hope you don't die. 

HMS: Damn yeah when you put it like that...all right. Well awesome, that was that's all the questions that I had, thank you so much for making time for this!

Tarah is just a little legend in the making.

Location: Harlem, NY / Florida
Day of quarantine: 21

TJ: I think I appreciate the city so much more now that I'm not there. I'm really realizing that I’m a city girl, that’s like an official thing. I never knew. 

HMS: Well, it's good to learn that about yourself. Did you go to Florida for the quarantine? Are you already in Florida? 

TJ: Um, I'm here because my mom's not feeling too well. It just so happened that it all happened at once. She wasn’t feeling well and then my company gave us work from home orders until April 30th. So I was like I might as well just come home. And so I did and here we are. 

HMS: I guess one of the positives of this whole thing is that you're able to go be with your mom.

TJ: That really is a positive. I'm not for people traveling during this time. But I do think that there are ways to be careful when you travel: have a mask on, put your gloves on, sit for three hours, try not to touch anything. I say try to drink as much water as you can before you travel so that you're not asking for snacks on the plane. I have a friend who is an [Executive Assistant] like me and she was like, “oh, I can't leave, I can't leave” but I'm like “girl, go home,” like New York is closed until June I can assure you of that. I think essentially we're getting the first wave of sick people. But all the people that they got sick aren't sick yet. So then those people are going to come, and those people got other people sick. So we have like three waves of this thing to deal with. So I'm like, New York is away until July 2020. I think it's positive to stay home. I think I'm healthier. I'm drinking more water. But I had a really hard time adjusting at first, I almost had a little bit of anxiety adjusting. My first week working from home was trash. Like don’t call, don’t text because I'm really in my bed trying to figure out what's going on in the world. But other than that, I'm like this is great. Honestly working from home shows you how much time we waste at work. I get things done so much quicker now and things that are not urgent I'm like, I'll do that next week. Why are you bothering me? I'm so serious. One of the managers on my team, he keeps being like you need to put the dial-in for this and I'm like, it's my meeting coming from my boss’ calendar, who's a president. There's going to be a dial-in on there when I put it in there. No, I think there are a lot of positives to this. If you’re home, drink water, cleanse, you never get a chance to do it. I know that there are a lot of negatives and there's a lot of economic backlash. It sucks that our economy’s tanking, the global economy’s taking a hit but maybe this is Earth saying “fuck you,” you know, like, “you put me through all of this for all these decades, now I'm going to sit your ass at home.” 

HMS: Perhaps. So, how are you feeling right now? 

TJ: I feel very numb. I feel very numb. I'm not reacting to anything, you know? Essentially this is taking a time, this virus is happening during a time in my life that's really shifting. My mother's health is not where it should be. So I'm almost kind of thankful that there's a virus that sent me home because if not, I would have had to do things differently. But I'm numb and I think I'm numb because I have other emotional things that are pressing on me. 

HMS: Yeah, like there's other shit going on for you. It's not just this one thing. Do you know anyone that has tested positive for the virus and were you in contact with them at all?

TJ: I do not know the person directly but my co-workers best friend tested positive for it. So no, I don't know anyone who's tested positive for it.

HMS: Yikes. Yeah someone at our office tested positive. And they didn't tell us who it was, so I don't know if I had direct contact with them but then like three other people that I do know, who are on the sales and marketing teams, ended up getting symptoms. They never got tested and they kind of got over it themselves I think. So yeah, we all got sent home very quickly.

TJ: Immediately. 

HMS: Yeah, have you yourself been sick at all during this time with any symptoms that you thought potentially could be related to coronavirus?

TJ: My throat acted really funny. This is the thing, and I'm not going to say that this works, I think I'm on God's terms right now, but my throat was acting funny and I chugged some black seed capsules and some elderberry and that evaporated overnight. So I've been on my immunity trail way before this became a huge issue in New York. I think that helped me a lot because I catch everything. If I go outside and you cough and you have the flu, I have the flu. There's no doubt about it. Like that's just the kind of person I am. I remember when I used to work at Looker I was sick for my first 3 months there, the entire time, everything that everybody got I got, just one after the other. 

HMS: That really sucks, the worst possible time to have that kind of immune system. But it’s good you've been taking your herbs.

TJ: Yeah, I'm taking my herbs. I always say that I feel like my ancestors did the work, I just have to follow up. The herbs are there, I have an herb shop in Harlem, and I’ve really been practicing social distancing which happens to be my normal state of life. So it's just great. I like to be alone anyways, and now I can just do it. I don't have to explain myself. 

HMS: Yeah, I totally feel that. Last night I went to an online Zoom party and I was it's great. It was the best party that I've ever been to. I was so happy that this is how we're doing this. Like, I am in bed. I can play video games, if I want to. I’m drinking water, there's no line for the bathroom... 

TJ: Yes. 

HMS: Ok but what has been your least favorite part of having to quarantine?

TJ: Just the fear of getting the virus. It's contracted so easily and that's the worst part. Other than that I'm good. I believe in working from home. I think there should be a balance. Honestly, I think the earth should close down for two weeks every three months to give it a break. I'm serious. I think it should be a thing. No trains, no buses, no cars. Stay your ass at home. But you know, I'm not President yet so....

HMS: I would vote for you. What do you think's going to be different about the world once this is all over? And all over can mean either quarantine ending or them finding a vaccine or whatever you want all over to mean. 

TJ: I think we will be kinder, I think we’ll be a kinder generation. I think our generation will be a lot kinder because this was like a joke at first and then it got real. And I think that to know that there are elderly people who are scared to go outside and I can't help them…if I saw an elderly person, I'd be more than delighted to go help, because I can fight this, but they can't you know. So I think we'll be a lot kinder. I think we’ll be a lot cleaner. People are washing their hands and I'm like that's what you should have been doing. Like why is this new to you? I think we'll be kinder, more hygienic, and I think we’ll be so much more thankful. I will never spend a day in my room again in the city. I will go out. I will go visit a new block. I'm so serious. As much as I go out and bop around, I don't I don't live enough and  this was a great great way to reset for me. So I think we'll all come back very grateful. Very grateful. 

HMS: Yeah.  I think I agree with that, both pieces. At the start of quarantine, like right before you saw a shelter-in-place coming, did you go out and panic-buy anything and what were the things that were important to you to have for this period?

TJ: I didn't. I'm a minimalist at heart. So the only things that I knew that I needed were: masks and cleaning stuff, like Lysol wipes. That was the only thing I needed to go out and buy. I went out and I found nothing and I said, okay. When it came time for me to eat, I eat out everyday and all the restaurants are closed. So I bought a lot of soup that now is in my closet in New York because I'm in Florida, but it's okay. It'll be there when I come back. Lots of soup, lots of cereal. I think that's the only place where I panic-bought, and had I been there I would have used  it. But other than that, no, I didn't panic-buy anything. I had a really horrifying experience when I went into Whole Foods, the Whole Foods on 125th in Harlem and there was nothing and I literally teared up, I was like what is going on, that's never happened. And you see people in lines and it kind of shows you that we're not ready for stuff like this. We don't have the capacity for this and we should. We live in a city where we pay the kind of taxes where we should have multiple supermarkets. Where everyone is not congregating at the one Whole Foods in Harlem, you know. So that was kind of an eye-opener for me. That was an eye-opener but no nothing panic. I'm a minimalist. I hate having shit in my room. I hate having shit period, I own one pair of jeans. 

HMS: Yeah, the grocery store scenes have been weird because it's like you see those images that everyone's posting on social media and it kind of feels obnoxious after a while, but when you're actually in the store and you're going to grab something and the shelves are completely empty, that feeling is so jarring. 

TJ: So jarring.

HMS: Yeah, you think that you live in a country or a city where you should never have to walk into a store and not be able to get what you need, which is a super privileged position to come from of course, but that's just how we’ve been conditioned, and then to actually experience that and be like, oh shit, there's nothing here...Anyway, we talked a little bit about this, but I'm going to ask it again anyway for the second half of the question, but do you feel any anxiety surrounding the virus and its ramifications and if so, how have you been dealing with that anxiety? Any tips or advice? 

TJ: Um, I think there's anxiety when I'm around people and that's something that I've never felt before, so I say like protect yourself and just understand that if you go out, wear a mask, if you touch something, wash your hands, do not touch your face, take your clothes, off wash them. We're aware that this virus enters through our mouths, through our eyes and through our nose possibly, so it's very simple but you don't realize how much you touch your face and you don't realize that someone that touches something that you ate might have it. That's my tip, simplify it. It's a very simple process. God forbid, but maybe I'll miss it once and someone will have it and then I'll forget to wash my hands. But my thing is you have to simplify. And social distancing is really important because it's not even so much about you, it’s about other people. I say make that a priority because there are people who don't have the capacity to fight this virus and we don't have enough ventilators at hospitals. So unfortunately doctors will have to choose. If it's between me and a 17 year old, that 17 year old’s going to get the ventilator and it's unfortunate but it's real. We need a way to cope with it and that probably freaks people out, I cope with it that way but I just simplify everything. I wash my hands. I stay home. I take my immunity stuff. I’m mindful about that, but no anxiety. The anxiety I had my first week working was just because I had received the news about my mom and it was just too much. Like it was this quarantine, my mom, being in the city where I'm watching people fight for toilet paper. I also noticed while I was in the city that people were more angsty at stores. They were more willing to argue and that made me sad because they're arguing with the cashier about something while he's putting himself in danger. He doesn’t have a mask on, he doesn’t have gloves on. So no, simplify. Simplify it much as you can and stay home. Stay home, you're not stuck at home you're safe at home. I think that's a mindset that we have, like we're stuck at home, and it's not true. You pay for your house, stay there. 

HMS: Yeah, true. I'm like getting the most value out of my rent right now. 

TJ: You don't realize how much money you spend when you leave your house. I haven't spent a dime. I have not spent a dime other than food. So um what am I doing with my anxiety? I'm looking at the positive stuff. 

HMS: Yeah, I like that. Okay, so this question you may or may not have an answer. I assume it would have been soup had you stayed in Harlem, but what have you been eating lately? Has anything stood out while you've been down in Florida as your go-to meal?

TJ: First of all, I'm an island girl so I'm not living that way. I'm eating regularly. We're just very hygienic with cleaning our food. We're soaking our fruit, my mother and her husband eat a lot of peas and they grow their own peas so that's coming from our backyard. We buy fish but we clean it and we wash our hands. I'm eating very regularly. I think had I been in New York I really would have been eating soup though, just because I really didn't want anybody touching my food, but no I'm eating very regularly. I will say this, I'm eating less here, and I'm eating more healthy. So like my breakfast is a salad. My mom makes a celery avocado and lime salad that's to die for. 

HMS: Oh, damn you are living down in Florida.

TJ: So I don't know what everybody else is going through.

HMS: No I'm with you, I'm eating. I'm cooking three meals a day for myself and going to the grocery store every so often and getting like 2 weeks worth of food so I can avoid going too frequently, but still have fresh food. It's definitely a lot of cooking. But I'll spend hours making a nice dinner because I have the time, and then I'll just sit down and eat it in like 10 minutes by myself, which feels kind of weird but I'm getting over it. 

TJ: No, I get that. It's all good. 

HMS: It's all right. I got FaceTime. 

TJ: Yeah you have FaceTime. I have a virtual happy hour this Friday.

HMS: Cute, that's fun. 

TJ: And I'm like ugh like you guys, this is what it's come to? This is just what it’s come to.

HMS: Yeah, I know. Last night I was drinking tequila sodas in my bed while I was watching this DJ spin from their bedroom over Zoom.

TJ: I saw that. I was like, you know what? Yes. That's my kinda party. Honestly.

HMS: I mean might as well, right? 

TJ: Yeah. I feel like people will learn how to congregate more after this. 

HMS: Yeah or congregate in different ways. Like maybe we should have a virtual option for parties for folks that can't leave their house. Like why not? It was fun.

TJ: Maybe we should work from home more.

HMS: We should definitely work from home more.

TJ: I don't understand why the world hasn't gotten there, why this is not sticking. Like I need to work at my house sometimes.

HMS: Yeah, and it just shouldn't be a big deal.

TJ: Right? I feel so uncomfortable when I ask to work from home. A few weeks ago I told my boss I'm working from home tomorrow. He's like, is there a reason? I literally looked at him and was like, I don't want to be here on a Friday that's why. I just don't understand. Like it's 2020. Yes, I'm working from home.

HMS: What difference does it make to that person? 

TJ: Right, but I think our bosses are still old school. When we’re the boss we're gonna be like, please don't come here, I don't want to be here.

HMS: True. 

TJ: Our bosses are like, you're not in the office at 8:30 on the dot and you didn't leave at 5:30 on the dot, my god. 

HMS: It's true. Really true. Okay last question. What do you think about the government's response to the crisis? Like locally nationally internationally, whatever.

TJ: The US government?

HMS: Sure.

TJ: From the bottom of my heart I think they're doing the best that they can. I think a lot of people don't feel that way, some people don't feel that way about New York, they don't feel that way about our president, but I think what we don't realize as a people is that no one was ready for this even though we saw it happening in China and we saw it happening in Italy, it just wasn't happening with us. We should have started social distancing the minute China went into that 20,000 range. Especially in New York because that's a hot spot, those China-New York flights are coming in every day, multiple times a day, but I think no one expected this to happen to us the way that it did. We didn't have the tools. We didn't have enough mass. We don't have enough hand sanitizer and then the entire country orders all of the Lysol capacity. So there are no Lysol wipes, there's no Lysol disinfectant spray. We weren't ready, so I think we're doing the best that we can. Also you got to understand that these people are panicking behind the scenes, but they have to put up a front for us. It may not seem that our president cares sometimes because he's not showing emotion, but he can't do that. He knows this shit is real. He knows it's as real as it gets and it's scaring the shit out of him, but he has to remain calm because the minute he starts panicking, we're gonna start panicking. I think they're doing the best that they can. I just think we need to be a little bit more prepared. I think this shows us that we don't have enough hospitals. We don't. And we don't have enough medical professionals, and we need to motivate people to be medical professionals. We have nurses, we have medical assistants, maybe we need to create one more tier of medical professionals, for people who can't go to school for four years but there's still something that they could do. I'm sure I could work a ventilator. I don't need to go to college to learn how to work a fucking ventilator and tell you that you're dying. Like I think I could do that. I think I could do that. You know, you're ill, I'm putting you on a ventilator, the doctor will be here, the nurse will be here. So I think they're doing the best that they can but I don't think anyone was ready for this. And you'll have people who say oh, well they should know what to do and I'm like no this is different. You're fighting something and you're trying not to get it yourself. In most crises we have with other countries that we can lean on but everyone's in deep shit too. 

HMS: Yeah, it is shockingly like a “we're not discriminating” kind of attack, across the world, across any kind of person

TJ: Right, it's like we're all screwed. 

HMS: Yeah, it's a little unprecedented.

TJ: I think we're doing the best that we can with keeping the peace and I don't know if the news is accurate. I don't know if those numbers are accurate, but you know what? I'm not interested in the numbers. I'm interested in the solution. Social distancing is not being taken seriously in certain states. I’m in Florida and literally the kids are hanging out. 

HMS: Yeah, same on my block to be honest.

TJ: I don’t understand why they’re hanging out, go home. So, you know, I think we're doing the best that we can but I think we'll be ready next time. I think we'll be ready next time. My mom works for FEMA. She gets deployed with them and she can't do it right now, but I've heard a lot of complaints like why hasn’t FEMA come around and done this and done that and I'm like you have to understand this is not just an issue in New York. This is the whole country. And 80% of the solution is in our hands: stay at home. And I don't think people understand how important it is – stay your ass at home. So no, I think they're doing their best. And I wish them health. It kind of sucks to be going through this right around re-elections. It's not gonna be good...for him at least. I think this is really going to mess up elections for him because I think a lot of people don't agree with his approach to this. So I mean I don't want to get into politics, but we'll see what happens. But I think the government is doing the best that they can. What else can you do if you think about it? Like if you’re sick, you gotta go to a hospital. Like what do you want me to do? I think China built a hospital in like 10 days? 

HMS: Yeah, they turned the Javits Center into a hospital. Did you see that? 

TJ: Yes, isn't that crazy? 

HMS: Yeah, 

TJ: I think in Italy they turned an ice rink into a morgue. Which broke my heart. 

HMS: Oh god. That’s something else.

TJ: Yeah, it broke my heart. I think we're doing the best we can but I think as a people we have the power, we can stop this more than anybody else can. 

HMS: Well, that was the last question. Thank you so much.

Jen is a tech executive and a mom.

Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Day of quarantine: 19

JR: Cheers! We're drinking. 

HMS: Good! I finished my last bottle of wine and now I'm like do I go to the grocery store just to get wine? I don't know. Is that irresponsible? 

JR: No! Where are you in New York? Where are you? 

HMS: I’m in Brooklyn, there’s not so many people around.

JR: Yeah, exactly. It's kind of a ghost town I bet. Our friend who's down near NYU is like it's just crazy quiet. Weird. 

HMS: Yeah I think a lot of people left the city.

JR: Yeah, I believe it. But all good. 

HMS: Okay, you ready? How are you feeling right now?

JR: Right now, I mean honestly, you know, it's strange. I feel like I've been waiting for life to slow down for sometime. And while, of course, I have all of these feelings that what's happening in the world is terrible, and I'm worried, and I don't want people to get sick, but there's some sort of strange calm that I have or peace that I have inside of me that I have to be here, like I can't go anywhere. I am sort of forced into slowing down, being home, and living life in a different way. There's lots of funny stuff being written about Gen-X during this timeframe, of which I'm a member; how we've been sort of prepared for this our whole lives. And in some ways I feel that is true. Stacy said to me, “we're all fine over here,” and I said, “yeah, I'm finding that the more time I have alone, the more time I want to spend more time alone.” Meaning, I want this to end of course, on so many levels, but in some ways I already feel a sort of melancholy that this will end and I'm going to be expected to be back out and be extroverted and social again, when maybe this is more of my true nature. 

HMS: Yeah, I definitely feel that, very deeply.

JR: It's conflicting because I'm like, wow, I never thought I would have this much time to read, and be home and catch up on things, and cook. So it's almost like I'm feeling possessive of it in some way. I’m trying to make the best of it in those ways but it's not very hard. Right? I'm like, I'm actually okay as long as everyone's healthy and we're safe and we're doing what we can. I feel okay, this is okay for now.

HMS: Yeah, how has it been working at home with other people working at home, your son? How's that been? 

JR: Yeah, I will say it can be challenging in moments. Right? We have literally hung signs on the doors that say, “conference call or important call 9 to 9:30. Do not disturb.” The bandwidth stuff is an issue at times and everyone said, “oh we heard your whole last call on Friday.” And I was like, well just come in and tell me! I didn’t know I was being so loud and broadcasting everything. So yes, you've got virtual school going on, two full-time tech workers, one real office space, which I sort of take over because my room doesn't have enough internet connection for me to do reliable video. Even now we're in the office it sometimes doesn’t have reliable video.

HMS: Yeah, it's been interesting. I'm lucky it's just me in my apartment but I share my internet with my neighbors upstairs and they were gone for the first two weeks but one of them came back and brought a friend who I guess quarantining with them and on Friday the internet just wasn't working and I was like, well guess I can't work anymore. 

JR: Yeah. Right. Again, therein lies not the worst thing in the world to some degree. I think there is a human side of it too where we're all in sort of the same boat. Not all of us obviously, I recognize my privilege in many things that I'm able to do right now, but it's that type of a thing like “oop guess I can't do that. Okay. I'm just going to log off.” I've always been someone who tries to bring a lot of humanity to work and to my teams and so there's part of this that I feel like is bringing that out. The first thing I told Frank honestly, and Kelly, was that this isn't business as usual. You can't say that. It's just now. And yes, I know we need to make the quarter and we need to do this and that, but you can’t, it's not business as usual. That's not what this is. Right? Because they kind of started with that message at the very beginning because it was sort of like oh it’s not so serious, we just work from home. So that's been interesting, it's been interesting to be a part of it from a leadership perspective and an HR perspective. My job hasn't been super busy honestly, like from a transactional standpoint, but from a team standpoint has been very busy. Again, the human being aspect of it all. It's been important to be very present with that. 

HMS: Yeah, totally. It's been interesting on the sales team because obviously everybody wants business as usual, but then you get on a phone call with a customer and they’re debating whether or not to lay off their entire team or pay their vendor bills. I mean, I don't know, we don't do mid-year reductions normally, I don't know how to deal with this! As a human I'm like I’m so, so sorry but as a someone doing their job I don't really know how to have this conversation. But at the same time I have to have this conversation, this is my job. I have to at least have this conversation, regardless of how it ends up working out. On this 30 minute phone call I have to play this role. It's bizarre.

JR:  It really is and I think I've always had mixed feelings about the “Google thing” but now having worked for big companies and now a smaller company and now this again, I'm super grateful, regardless of kind of what happens, to be swept into that in this moment in a company that is so big and well positioned and has money and isn't worried about making payroll, and makes money in ways that truly probably won't be super effected. Of course they'll be affected, but not to the degree of other companies. So that has really helped turn my tide a little too. 

HMS: Yes, we're really lucky. So do you know anybody that has tested positive for COVID-19? And were you in contact with them at all? 

JR: You know, I actually don't and I'm super shocked. I know that won't last very long. I have just a pretty big network both socially and professionally so just like anything else I would like to think that I don't know someone because I don't know of someone right now, but I can't believe that that is going to last. I mean it doesn't really count that I knew the person in our New York office that got sick. That counts in some way but that’s it. I said to someone the other day, I just kind of can't believe I don’t know anyone else. And I think it's part of the problem, that a lot of people don't personally know someone and therefore aren't able to relate to it as real. And I hate to use this analogy, but I said it was sort of like straight people not liking gay people because they don't actually know someone who is gay. It's really easy to not like someone until they’re like “oh well, I'm your sister and guess what? I'm a lesbian.” And then they’re like oh! So, until it becomes this personal thing to people, they don't believe it. Even though we've got all of these people who believe in God and religion...I don't get it. You believe in this but you don’t believe in that because you can't see it? Like, what the fuck?

HMS: Yeah, that's really true. It's funny, a lot of a lot of people that I've spoken to doing these kinds of interviews don't know anyone personally that's been tested but a lot of people are one degree of separation away from somebody that has. But I think you're right. I think that's probably going to change soon.

JR: Oh, yeah math doesn't really lie. It definitely will. I'm very mathematically minded and when you think just about how big our company is, it won't stay that way. It's a weird feeling to be sitting and waiting for that. But that's kind of what I feel like we're doing. My outside world contact has been very, very limited over the past couple weeks. I have gone to the grocery store, but sparingly, and I have not even done anything like that really recently. We were in some situations before: my kid had a school play right before, my dad was here, he's 86, he's back in Michigan, he's still healthy. It's been over two weeks, so it's like I'm kind of marking all these time points. I feel fairly good about us here in my household, but it's hard to say. 

HMS: Yeah. Did the Santa Cruz office go into quarantine at the same time as New York? 

JR: We did. I think the good thing about Google having offices in other places is that they did get ahead of it a little bit. I was trying to remember the other night with Stacy too because I thought I was at work Monday. Or I thought it was still at work on Tuesday, because it was happy hour and I think I stayed and had a glass of wine and then grabbed all my stuff. And I thought I should take my monitor because that's when it was recommended to stay home but I was like, oh, I'll come back on Friday and get it because I'm still in HR and I can get in or whatever. I could have still gone that day but then like I just was like, oh fuck no, I am not doing that. So yeah, it's been quarantine since like March 12 or something like that 12 or 13. But I will tell you, we were out some. Melinda's mom was still here because she had come at the tail end of Miller's play and one of the last nights we went out to eat. It was Thursday, probably the 14th or something I want to say. I don't know if I'm getting it right or not. But I was texting with Kelly and we had just had this conversation about the stay at home and what you should do and all this and I said to her, and this was the night before they found out about the person in the New York office, I just said “what are you going to do? Are you ready? Because someone's going to get it.” And she kind of poo-pooed me and was like “really?” and I'm like, yes. And then literally less than 12 hours later it arises. But it makes me feel good, like I can do her job. Like clearly I'm thinking the right way. But it's been funny because you walk this fine line of being negative or being a fearmonger early on, but I said early on with my team that this is exponential math, this is bad shit. Stop, go home. Everyone. This is a serious type of thing. And I’ve been that way with my family who was a little backhand wavy in Michigan, which is now one of the worst places, because I could tell.

HMS: It definitely was interesting to see the shift in people who were at the beginning very much like “we don't need to worry about this. We live in America.” Even within my friend group. It’s interesting what it took for them to be shocked into actually going into quarantine and taking it seriously. I feel like even with people at work in the New York office, who did directly know somebody that tested positive, although we didn't know who it was by name, but it was somebody that we work with and engage with day-to-day, I think even after that people still weren't really taking it seriously. It wasn't until they really locked down the city and the shelves in the grocery stores were empty and the hospital was overflowing into this convention center that people were like, “oh, okay maybe I should stop trying to go to the gym or whatever.”

JR: No, totally. I mean we're guilty of it here a little bit too, right? I was at yoga. I knew better. It was like I knew, but it's weird what your brain will...what you do and don't do, and allow and not.

HMS: Well, I also think that you have to find a balance between what's practical and what's safe, because some things have to carry on. Like I have a friend that just wants to completely stop going to the grocery store, which he can because he lives in a city and he can get groceries delivered, but that's not a reality for everybody. You have to allow people to make that decision and go to the store, or go for a run if they need to go for a run for their mental health, or things like that. So I think yeah, everybody has to find their balance. 

JR: Absolutely, for sure. 

HMS: Okay, what’s been your least favorite part of sheltering-in-place or whatever you're calling it in Santa Cruz?

JR: I think that's what it's called. My least favorite part…that’s a good question. I do like people, so as much as I am happy being here, I think the inability of things to go on, whether it's going out to eat or concerts or stuff like that, things that truly sort of enrich your life and help other people, were missing all that around here a lot. I think it's between missing that, and thinking of how that will even come to be again. I am a true believer that life will not be the same. It's going to be different, things will be very different. I think I'm a little, and again I'm guilty of it too, but it's that balance again. I feel like I need to post something about how I realize I'm this affluent white woman in the suburbs who can go to yoga or pay to stream yoga and have fresh vegetables and internet and I'm watching movies on one of the 32,000 streaming channels that I have right now. At least I'm self-aware, right? But I still want to communicate and share with people what's going on in my life, but I feel like a jerk when we know people are suffering, so I think I like that the least. It's this element of like, okay then maybe I should just be completely cut off and not do anything. But I want to still communicate with people and show my family: here's what we're cooking or here's what we're watching or things that move me, here's what's happening. So I think that's harder now.

HMS: Yeah. I think you should definitely share what you're cooking. I've been doing a lot of taking food photos. 

JR: Yeah, we're doing that. 

HMS: I think my family’s sick of me at this point because I'm not normally good about keeping in touch with folks but I FaceTime my parents every day now. I'm like, in the family group chat like this is what I'm eating for this meal. I'm gonna text you in three hours and show you what my next meal looks like.

JR: Exactly. 

HMS: Okay just two more questions. What have you been feeling or what do you think about the government's response to this crisis either locally, nationally, internationally etc…?

JR:  I think locally we're very lucky. Honestly. I think I was saying today I think we're lucky to have a strong governor. And even though I don't live in San Francisco, I think the mayor of San Francisco followed suit and then others did in the surrounding area to really act quickly. And I think part of that is because they are not beholden to the White House in a way. Michigan's on the same thing, honestly. The female governor there, who now is just called the female governor of Michigan or “that woman in Michigan” or whatever, and while she hasn't made the best decisions along the way she's caught up pretty quickly. So I'm grateful for that. I have a close friend in Florida and I am telling her everyday “you have to stop doing what you're doing. You have to stop, trust me.” I was getting looks in Target two weeks ago for being the crazy lady with the loaded cart, but like go do it and don't go back. Knock it off. Stop playing tennis. Stop going to the beach. I don't know what to tell you. But they've got local and state government who do not want to oppose or do anything that's not in line with the bigger government. I do feel for the balance between economic destruction and public health, and I think you've got to worry about the economic piece and continue to work on that, but you can't not do something about the public health piece. I think we should go into a complete Federal shutdown, meaning like a complete National lockdown. No one flies. No one goes anywhere. I think it's going to happen. But I think it should have already happened after seeing what's happening here and that things are actually fairly positive still. I think that bad things are still going to happen, but they're not going to happen to such a bad extent perhaps. 

HMS: Yeah.

JR: I don’t know. So I think that the state and local people are doing the best that they can where I'm at and I feel grateful for that. We were ahead, sort of aggressive. And I feel bad for New York and I don't think they did the wrong thing, I think there's just a proximity challenge, a density challenge and now we're all paying for it. There's a great article in New York Times today about fucking up the whole testing thing, which meant we lost a month. And that month is going to translate to tens of thousands of lives and that's just crazy. 

HMS: Yeah, it is really intense to watch the numbers, especially in New York. I've actually kind of stopped keeping up daily. I'll do it like every few days, get it out of my system, get super freaked out and then deal with those anxieties, but yeah, it definitely wasn't dealt with appropriately. It's also weird to see how flippantly Cuomo just changes his opinion on what is the right thing to be doing? Just like it makes me super nervous and I'm sure it is the same for other folks that are even more tapped in than I am 

JR: Yeah.

HMS: Okay last question. What have you been eating lately? Anything that's stood out as the quarantine go to? Or something that you were really excited to make?

JR: Yeah, I think it's a chance to cook and be healthy. And I happen to have a co-parent housemate here who is very focused on being healthy. So I’ve said if it wasn't for her (and I do like to cook!) Miller and I would definitely be eating things that weren't as good for us. He's 13. So he still gets to eat mac and cheese and all the stuff that we grew up on. The farmers market I feel is the safest place to shop right now and so we just are eating a ton of veggies and rice and beans and we stocked up pretty well ahead of time. So I feel super grateful for that. I think the only thing we feel that we have to get is fresh fruits, vegetables, bread, and milk. Everything else we have. And honestly, of course I'm drinking too much. I mean that is like absolute, fucking know that is absolutely happening. But not in a bad way. We're just like what the hell, what should we drink tonight? But it's communal. It's fun. You know what I mean? It's not it's not like we're drinking to be like...it's just more like we're home and we cook and we're going to watch a movie, and we have nice wine, so what bottle are we going to drink? Sorry, we should send you some. That's what you'll learn later, like in your 40s, you'll never not have alcohol. I have three refrigerators and we may not have food in the house but there is always beer and there's always wine, always. 

HMS: Well what's messed up is that my parents run a vineyard in California and so their house just literally has wine barrels in it…

JR: I’m going. When this is all over.

HMS: You should go! But they're drinking wine constantly and I'm always like oh damn the two bottles that I bought at the beginning of this week from the liquor store are gone. Now what?

JR: Living alone and wine are tough too, at least I’m forcing Melinda to drink some of this. But yeah I'm really into food. That's I think part of the thing that keeps us sane: we like food, so we can make an event of it, which we do around the preparation of food or the eating of food or drinking. It's more entertaining. It's like you're doing something. So I think that that's been great. But way too many carbs, way too much bread because you're working from home and your work from home eating is like: I eat cereal and then I eat toast and then I eat ...

HMS: Yeah, I’ve been eating a lot of bread too. Sandwiches!

JR: Yeah. I know, you need a vehicle for the stuff and the vehicle ends up being this damn bread. Anyways, this was great!

HMS: Yeah, thank you! This is great. It's been a lot of fun to have a project to work on to pass the time that’s not playing video games.

JR: What video games are you playing?

HMS: I fell into the trap of getting Animal Crossing. Do you know that game?

JR: No.

HMS: It's for kids I think. You like, plant flowers and chop down trees and run a home. It's very relaxing. You don’t really have to think, it just passes the time. So I've been playing that a lot but I don't really play video games that much, it's just like a thing on Twitter right now that all of these adults are playing this game. 

JR: I'll look it up for sure. I can watch movies and documentaries all day long. So it's like trying to stop doing that to actually read a book...there's still so much, I can just keep going it’s so good. All right, we'll take care of you. Let's connect again, you know, sometime.

HMS: Yes! Keep in touch. Stay safe. Stay healthy. Hope the family is good.

JR: Alright. Bye. Thank you.

Mariah is librarian and artist living in Michigan.

Location: Ypsilanti, MI
Day of quarantine: 16 (MI on day 6 of lockdown)

HMS: At the beginning I was like, it feels like life is on pause, because I'm working but it doesn’t feel like working and I am not doing anything else. But then more recently I've been feeling like it actually feels like life is on fast forward and I'm just not noticing time pass and it's moving so quickly but I'm not recognizing that I'm doing anything, which is scarier. Fast-forward is more scary to me than pause.

M: Agreed. Yeah. A big part of my job has to do with events, I work at the public library. So it's like number one, thank goodness our leadership at the library is awesome so even part-timers are guaranteed that they will be paid, which is amazing. But I mean a good half of my job involves planning events, so the first week when I was working from home, I was like, okay, I’ve had a bunch of things cancel, I have a bunch of people to reach out to and then after that we're still providing some services remotely, but my workday is just so different because eventually I can plan events, but for now, you know, who knows. So I'm still working but even though I'm not in the library, even beyond that it's just so different from what I would be doing normally. 

HMS: Yeah, what kind of online services are you guys able to provide? 

M: So I'm actually really proud. I always think of us as like the library Voltron. I'm really proud of my library Voltron-mates, they’ve really risen to the challenge. There's probably about 15 of us, maybe 15 to 20 of us, who are still working from home a decent amount and we have video streaming programming. It's basically just a YouTube channel, AADL, which is Ann Arbor District Library, AADL dot TV, and so every morning at 10 a.m. from the first Monday of quarantine, one of our storytellers did a story for kids from their house. I've been joking with my Storyteller friends because they're like, “yeah without an audience it's super weird sitting here singing nursery rhymes and doing things with puppets, but just into a void.” My friend Amanda was like, “it's just ghost children out there, I know they're out there,” and it is really sweet because within the first couple days parents and families were sending in videos of their kids seeing their favorite storyteller, it was very sweet. But in that moment so much of the energy of a story time is being goofy because you're feeding off of the goofy kids. So yeah, story time every day and then there's usually either craft or trivia or some sort of demo of like dying clothes with avocado pits or desserts you can make from things in the back of your freezer. Usually there's something like that around one and then in the evening at around seven there have been a variety of different things. That gets a little more experimental, sometimes it's just like we’ll try a thing. My friend Toby, he's a sports guy for a library guy, right? So he’s still not like “woo sports!” but you know, he's into sports for someone who works at the public library. Okay? So he and a couple other co-workers basically made up a fake sport that they’re announcers for – it’s basically him wearing a tie and a puppet and then he FaceTimes in other people. It's actually really great. I don't give a shit about sports, but I'm very entertained by him. 

HMS: That's impressive. People are really like what can I do right now? 

M: Absolutely. So yeah, we've been providing phone service as well but we can only provide so much phone service. A lot of that is just reassuring people. And of course we’re never like “now now it's okay,” you know, but a lot of it is people calling in wanting to confirm that they won't have any late fines or wondering how they're supposed to file their taxes, and they heard from their friend this or that but can we look that up and confirm it. That sort of thing. It's interesting. I mean, you know, we always have the like “I am not a tax accountant. I am not a doctor” disclaimer, like “no I cannot diagnose your symptoms for you.”  But if someone's asking, “oh I heard these most recent numbers for the county” or, wanting us to go find official information then we can certainly look at the official reports.

HMS: That's awesome because the I've been thinking a lot about how I'm really lucky in that I have access to computers and most people in my communities have access to computers and the internet, but there are folks on my block that likely don’t and I'm like, how are y'all dealing with this? And I'm in a neighborhood Slack group that came together to deliver free groceries to elderly folks and folks who can't leave their house, but I'm like how do any of these people know about the Slack group and so doing physical flyering and making sure that there’s stuff out in the neighborhood has been important. It's great that we have the internet and that it's so easy to transition so much stuff online, but for a lot of folks they still need to call the library to get answers to things when their computer is the computer in the library. 

M: Oh, totally. Yeah. Absolutely. 

HMS: So it’s awesome you guys are doing that. 

M: Yeah, it's been good. I mean it was a little bit of an adjustment at first just trying to figure out how to do it because we can't transfer people to other extensions easily, but we are still able to take down people's information, so it’s probably happening in any state, probably in New York as well. There is also our county Library for the Blind and Physically Disabled and so there are a dedicated number of staff who correspond with the main state library in Lansing to fulfill a request for people who may be visually impaired and so can only listen to audio books and that sort of thing. Last I knew, maybe not as of a couple days ago, but last phone check I worked Lansing was still – I mean obviously taking a lot of precautions – but they were still mailing out the cartridges to people with visual impairments who need to listen, so we can connect people with that sort of thing too.

HMS: That's cool. Yeah, I think that's the other thing, even with things like grocery deliveries where you know folks need access to food, folks need access to audio books if that's their main source of entertainment, you have to find a balance between being practical and being safe. I have some friends that I think are not being as practical as maybe they need to be because they're so afraid and obviously dealing with the anxieties is a whole other thing, but yeah finding that balance is really crucial right now. 

M: Definitely, I mean and anxiety is really real I definitely wouldn't minimize that at all but it is this tricky balance. I know for the first week there were some local libraries still doing drive-up book check outs and stuff and once we announced we were closed it was like basically not even 12 hours...it was like 10 hours until they closed. I worked that last Friday, the last Friday we were open and it was bonkers. I mean, it says a lot for how much people value their library and I've worked there for almost eight years, and I've worked some really busy days – usually on a busy Friday, we'll check out like 5,000 items and on that last Friday, we checked out over 30,000 items. 

HMS: Holy shit. 

M: Yeah, holy shit is right. And of course I was washing, washing, washing, you know, but that also meant that any of us who worked that day were like, okay, I'm definitely going to quarantine myself and be super careful because as much as we're telling everyone to be careful and we're being really careful just the amount of people that I came into contact with that day, you know. But again, it was really heartening because people were, for the most part, really great to each other and very patient. I have some pictures of decimated library shelves. It was crazy because like when does that ever happen? This one woman came in and she literally had two milk crates and filled them all up with books and so I was helping her check out and she was like she was like, “yeah, don't think I'm crazy” and I'm like, “I don't think you're crazy. None of us know how long this is gonna last.” And she was like, “no but also I have six kids” and I'm like, “oh wow good luck.” That's a lot of kids to keep occupied. So yeah, it's been really interesting to see everything through the lens of having worked in a place where I just had so much public interaction all the time, you know? And I know it was a series of hard decisions within libraries because we all take our service to the public so seriously, and we don't want to stay open when we're making people vulnerable to something, but we also understand that we serve a lot of really vulnerable populations. We want to make sure that there's some other people looking out or some other organizations that they can connect with, you know.

HMS: Yeah, totally. So, do you know anyone that's tested positive yet. And have you had contact with them? 

M: So this is a good question. What's great is that I know of four people personally who have been tested, none of them have tested positive, which is good. One of them actually tested positive for flu, which is interesting because a lot of times they don't even bother testing for flu, but now they're like, okay we’ll actually try. And I have one friend who is pretty sure that she's positive, all of her symptoms line up, but she's young enough and not sick enough that her doctor has just recommended that she stay at home and self isolate unless things get really bad. There are a couple drive through testing clinics within an hour of here. So one in Detroit-proper and then one over here in Ypsilanti on the border of Ypsilanti and Ann Arbor. And I know that they've been busy. My friend Karen is the one who was trying to get a test initially and then was just like “I guess I just am going to try to ride it out.” It's a strange thing because there's awareness all over the country, but I think particularly in areas where, like definitely in Wayne County where Detroit is, there’s been a huge uptick in cases. I think it's one of the nearing hot spot areas and I think that what's tricky is that we're all aware that even if the numbers look bad, the testing is so detached from how many people are actually experiencing symptoms that is hard for me to think ahead to the time when we will actually have more of a handle on it. 

HMS: Yeah. Well, that's the other thing that I've been asking people is have you had any sickness symptoms that you thought maybe were potentially related and did you or did you not think that you needed to get tested yourself? 

M: Yeah, I mean I think that's a really fair question. So I was actually in New Orleans last month. I had a brief vacation, it was really wonderful. Because it's so much warmer there, I started having allergy symptoms because there's pollen there and here in Michigan everything's still fucking gray and gross, so after I came back I wasn’t even thinking about coronavirus but I was like, oh man, I'm kind of stuffy and have a runny nose and my throat's really raw, like what's going on? And so then I started taking Allegra and within a couple days it was fine. So I don't think that that was anything but it's really interesting to think back and be like, oh that never would have occurred to me, right?

HMS: No, I actually had a very similar experience because it got warm here in New York a lot earlier than it normally does. Like normally right around now there's still snow on the ground and it's been “spring” since the beginning of March and I had really bad allergy symptoms and I don't normally get allergies. I don't know if maybe it’s just the time of year because it's early so it's a different kind of pollen or what...so I had some of the things where I was really congested, my throat was raw and so I just quarantined. I was like fuck it, I'm just gonna stay inside, but it went away in a couple days and I took allergy medicine and it was fine. But I had the very same thing. 

M: Yeah, I think that as scary as it is to think about yourself getting sick, which obviously is really scary, I think the other main thing was I was just like I just don't want to be any sort of disease vector. I just don't want to risk exposing anyone that I care about to that. Whether it’s my folks who are in their 70s or, I am a breast cancer survivor, I'm out about four and a half years now, no evidence of disease, which is awesome but it means that I'm close with a number of other people who are in their 20s, 30s who have experienced cancer and so some of their immune systems are still not optimal. Even if we do develop a vaccine some of them won't be able to take it, so it makes me super extra conscious about not wanting to expose anyone. 

HMS: Yeah I have family members that have compromised immune systems so that was the main thing for me as well from day one. Like I'm going to be fine, I know I'm going to be fine but you don't want to get other people sick if you can avoid it.

M: Yeah, and a lot of friends have said their parents have not taken it seriously at all, which is totally mind-boggling but I am glad that my parents from the first week took it relatively seriously. But I remember talking to my mom and she was talking about some sort of errands she had run or something where I was like that really doesn't seem very necessary but all right, you know, you're the parent I guess. But I do think the last week and a half they’ve been taking it really seriously and I'm glad. I think that it's driving my mom crazy. My dad is very self-contained and likes a lot of time to himself anyway, so I think he's just like hey great, but my mom, luckily she isn't super anxiety-texting me or anything but the way she phrases things, she's like “Zoom is just my life line right now” and it's dire, you know. So I'm glad that she has that though.

HMS: Yeah, that's good. What do you think will be different about the world once this is all over? You know, whatever all over looks like.

M: I was just talking with a friend about this this morning. It's so hard to imagine because I think that there are a few key things that have always been apparent to me, but I think are now really apparent on a huge scale, which is number one: boy, it seems real fucked up to tie healthcare to your employer, like so many millions of people can be unemployed just like that. Number two: oh, wow huh, it turns out that an employees health and their actual labor and ability to be in the world is actually something that companies are dependent on. So not to be super cynical about it, but I think that those things are very clear realities to a lot of people but I think that hopefully more people who have been able to not think about that at least have to think a little bit more deeply about it. I hope. But at the same time, some of those things are so ingrained in the structure of our world, also just specifically our country and the way things work here.

I'm trying to be optimistic about what the outcome could be and I think there’s this falsehood that people are not interconnected and that it's just a bunch of individual people bootstrapping everything. Like boy, we all knew that was bullshit already, but whoa, this is mega-bullshit now. And yes, there are social determinants of health and so people with more money and power are sometimes able to insulate themselves more from illness, but you even read about things like the Connecticut party or that one party that was called “Party Zero” because all of these very wealthy people had this party and almost everyone at the party ended up testing positive for COVID. Just because of my own health stuff in the past, I think a lot about illness and the fact that we are very literally human and have human bodies; how that cuts across many different strata of society and subcultures. About two years ago when I went to a mud bog they were selling things like stickers and stuff like that, you know, and a lot was mostly funny country bullshit, but there were a lot of those Calvin pissing on things stickers. And my favorite one was Calvin pissing on Lupus and I was like, “huh, okay, that really says it all in a way.” I agree with that sentiment, I wouldn't really have expressed it that way, but it really hits home – how you can be a mud bog-er, you can be throwing fancy cocktail parties, and someone who you know, or you, is going to be impacted in some way by some sort of physical health challenge. So I think that although I'm not happy that people are feeling really scared and feeling a lot of precariousness, my hope is that some of that fear will breathe a little bit more empathy and a little bit more compassion for people.

HMS: No, I am feeling similarly. What have you thought so far about the government response to the crisis? Like either locally, nationally, internationally... 

M: I mean there's a lot to say about that. So, I feel like our governor here, and this is a hot topic right now, but our governor here in Michigan, she's been a pretty great governor and a pretty great leader in general. But I really appreciate that they were quick to try to get out in front of things and shut things down and quickly go through various stages of social distancing like no gatherings beyond a certain number of people, and very quickly not only made pronouncements but she got on the air with other people who knew what they were talking about and really did a good job of communicating clearly. I am certainly much further left of center than she is, but she's been a pretty strong governor. I've agreed with a lot of things that she's done but I think that just in addition to actual action and policy, I appreciate that she's been a clear communicator because I think that in a situation like this especially, I think that that's really important. The federal response seems like a mess. It's hard to really tell because we're getting such conflicting information and because we're not really getting a lot of specific information. And because we have an asshole president who just seems to just...I'm not even going to say he's trying to lie I think he just doesn't even care. I don't know. It's a complex pathology really but we already knew that it was not a great thing to have a president who lied all the time and so no one trusted him. But particularly in a pandemic situation? Like this is especially a bad time to have someone like that as a figurehead. Even if there are agencies like the CDC and people that are working behind the scenes – and I'm sure that there are very dedicated people in those organizations trying to work very hard – because we aren't getting clear communication about where the efforts are and because the things that we're hearing from state government seem like people are kind of working at cross-purposes it doesn't make you feel like the federal government has anyone's back. 

HMS: Yeah, I mean to your point about your governor getting on air with folks that are experts, I feel like this is a moment where if you are a person in power you need to just step aside and put the experts on the platforms and listen to them and kind of like take a pass at talking about what you think because you actually don't know what the fuck we should do right now.

M: Right, you can have an opinion I guess but that's really not gonna help.

HMS: And Trump is not really good at the whole conceding power sort of thing.

M: No, that's an understatement. I mean I can't speak for other people but I think I would feel a lot more secure if the number one person in charge felt more comfortable with letting even the people he himself has deputized speak. I mean, I'm not a fan of fucking Mike Pence but you told him he was going to be a charge of the thing...it's like the national federal government version of when you get on a Zoom call with family members or a Google Hangout and someone's little kid just keeps yelling because they want to keep on seeing their face on the screen. That's what it is. So that's my impression. And I think even at the county level, I feel like our County Health Department has been really communicative and they're just the County Health Department, it’s not like they're doing anything fancy. But they always have the latest information update on the website, they try to do video updates for people who might want something that's a little bit more like, oh someone's talking to me, and I think that that goes a long way. 

HMS: Yeah, that's good. Okay. My last question for you is what have you been eating lately, has anything stood out as your shelter in place quarantine meal?

M: This would not be my standout meal, but I've been eating a lot of yogurt and granola. I mean I always do. I've actually been cooking pretty well honestly. I grew up in a pretty rural area where it was not easy to just swing by the grocery store, so we would get fresh produce once a week or so, but at the same time we had a cupboard where we would store a lot of stuff. And we had a deep freezer. I don't have a deep freezer, I live in a one-bedroom apartment, but you know, even though I live closer to stores, and because I've been a broke-ass artist at different times of my life, I'm pretty skilled it pantry-cooking. So before all this happened I bought a bunch of frozen spinach and frozen vegetables, I bought a bunch of beans, I pulled out some of my favorite soup recipes and made a big ol’ thing of lasagna, I made a big ol’ thing of soup and froze half of it. So I'm still rotating through some of that stuff from the freezer. And my friend Erin, she was sweet and brought over sourdough starter. I think everyone in the world is suddenly baking bread, but that's great. I mean, it's wonderful. It's lovely to have fresh bread. So yeah, I made a really pretty good loaf of bread so then I just have that with my soup and that's been great. I made a really good spicy peanut soup and that was kind of like ultimate freezer / pantry cooking because I had peanut butter and I had the frozen spinach, but it turned out really great and that with the fresh sourdough bread….I mean, I'm a big fan of cooking anyway but I only like to do it when I have time and now I certainly have time. So yeah, I'm kind of trying to perfect certain recipes and stuff. It's actually kind of fun. It feels a little silly because I'm only cooking for myself, but you know, that's fine. 

HMS: Yeah, I feel you. I love cooking too but again only can do it when I have the time so I've been cooking a lot. But I'll spend hours cooking some meal and then I'm like, okay, I guess I'll just sit down alone and eat this.

M: I know it was kind of so silly that this morning this guy that I'm seeing and I actually just talked to each other while we were cooking brunch. We weren’t gonna be eating together, but we're just like well we made something! He's like “well, yeah if you were here, I just made some really good biscuits.” Yeah, I love to cook but food is often a social thing. But I feel like I've been treating myself pretty well in terms of what I've been able to cook and my housemate who is in the apartment upstairs, he ran out to the grocery store last week so he bought me a couple of things but in general I think I won't have to go to the store for a little while, which is good. And I've been eating oatmeal every single morning for breakfast and it's actually really filling and a really good long-lasting quarantine food, you know. Throw a little bit of dried fruit in there and some nuts and you’re good to go. What's been your favorite quarantine meal that you've made yourself so far? 

HMS: Well actually yesterday I made this Mediterranean spiced chicken with charred cabbage. I got a recipe from a friend. I've been really liking sharing recipes. So I got this recipe for this charred cabbage with miso yogurt sauce 

M: Oh, I have some miso right now!

HMS: They’re not a chef, the instructions they put together were like two spoonfuls of plain yogurt, a spoonful of mayo, a spoon of miso and then lemon juice and I was like, these are not necessarily like recipe instructions, but I think I got it!

M: So you just tossed it with the cabbage?

HMS: No so you chop the cabbage into wedges like a pizza piece and fry it in some butter, ginger and garlic and then drizzle that sauce on top and it's soft but it's kind of crunchy and then it has this like good umami, Tahini-like flavor. 

M: That actually sounds really good. I wouldn't even necessarily think to put all those things together. 

HMS: I know, I was like this weird and then I was like this is amazing!

M: I feel like as this goes on I'll probably experiment a little bit more with other sourdough things. Oh, I did make carnitas, which I never really make and that was really good. Then I had some delicious pork that lasted me a few days. But hopefully whence we all emerge from this eventually I'll be able to share some of these recipes with other people. 

HMS: You will, I have faith that that day is going to come. 

M: Yeah, I mean what sort of things do you hope come? I mean, I don't know what our timetable’s going to be but like when you look ahead.

HMS: Yeah, I think I've been really inspired by that Slack group I mentioned, which I think is a good example of functional community aid. It’s like, there are folks with money in our communities and they are willing to share it. So it just becomes about connecting folks that have resources with folks that don't. And seeing people give up time to other people, I think is really inspiring. And it's not something that's hard to do but it is something that's really easy to forget about when you're so consumed with other things. I hope that that kind of mentality and community and mutual aid stuff continues. Because it's like, people's lives were hard before this started and we held up a mirror and now we can see how hard it is, but like it's not gonna get easier when this is over. So let's hopefully maintain some of this support. 

M: Yeah, I think that that's a good thought and I mean it's not quite as organized or immediate as a Slack channel but there are a couple mutual aid Facebook groups and list-serve things that have popped up here over the last couple of weeks and it's been really impressive. I was already involved with a few groups like that that were much more specific here in Ipsy, but I just feel like the pool of people that are looking to contribute time or ability or expertise is so much bigger and it's been really heartening to see. So yeah, I agree, I hope that a lot of that sticks around or at least the willingness to do that on a small level, even if we aren't able to coordinate it in such a big way.

Alg is a writer, editor, and cavern of cinematic knowledge based in Berkeley.

Location: Berkeley, CA / Stockton, CA
Day of quarantine: 16

HMS: How are you feeling right now?

A: Let's see. Right now I feel like...let's get honest. Right now I feel pretty disengaged with work and creativity and the world in general. And I have a slight headache from looking at screens all the time for the past two week.

HMS: That's real. I've been having bad headaches as well, from screens I think. 

A: I’m just super pent-up and I feel like I have a lot of social energy that I haven’t been using, And I’m not touching anyone. I feel contemplative. I feel very contemplative.

HMS: Yeah, it's interesting the way that the stuff you're missing, at least for me, is manifesting – like not being touched or not seeing people in the flesh and how that's making me feel, in ways that I didn't expect, it’s bizarre.

A: No, definitely. It’s just making me think a lot about how I produce work. Today I've been thinking a lot about how I haven't created anything in like 2 weeks and how it feels  very much like I'm just looking at my work computer, my regular computer and my phone, just three things all day and that's it.

HMS: Yeah at the start, before I started doing this project with Mollie, I was completely unproductive outside of work where I have to be in meetings. I was not able to bring myself to do anything, like even read a book, I couldn't focus on reading until I had something else to do. 

A: Yeah, I can’t read right now it’s so weird.

HMS: Yeah, super weird. We already talked about this but for the sake of the transcription, are you able to work from home right now? And what does that look like for you? 

A: Yeah, I'm able to work from home. I'm pretty lucky in my setup because I'm at my mom's house and so I have a room that I'm staying in and then a separate dining room that I can do work in. So I actually do have a separation between the two things, it's very lucky. I don't take that for granted, because if I was in Berkeley I would be all in one room all the time.

HMS: Yeah, that sounds really horrible. I'm also lucky that I have some space to spread out too. But a lot folks don’t. Do you know anyone that has tested positive for the virus and were you in contact with them at all? 

A: Um, no actually. 

HMS: Okay good. Actually, a lot of people that I've talked to haven’t directly known somebody that's tested positive. 

A: Yeah. I know a person from a person, but not anyone directly. Wow, that is lucky, I hadn’t thought about that. 

HMS: Well, hopefully it stays that way. Have you yourself been sick at all with anything that you initially thought might have been related to the virus?

A: Yeah. I got strep throat, like two weeks before everyone went into quarantine and I was flipping out even though strep throat symptoms aren't anything like COVID. I was still flipping out at the Urgent Care and stuff because it was just really apocalyptic. It was really crowded and everyone was wearing masks. And I'm on MediCal so the Urgent Care I can go to always takes forever because everyone is so overworked, because the American healthcare system is broken.

HMS: Right and really being tested from all angles right now. 

A: Yeah for real.

HMS: That is horrible. I'm sorry you had Strep, but I'm glad it was just Strep. 

A: Yeah, me too. 

HMS: It’s definitely a weird time to get sick regardless of what you're sick with.

A: Oh, definitely. 

HMS: What has been your least favorite part, or like the worst thing I guess is another way to phrase that, of having to shelter in place and quarantine?

A: Um, I would say it's tied between not having in-person therapy appointments and having to be completely celibate but not by choice. Yeah, I would say those are my two things. I really miss my therapist and then on a completely different note just going on dates and kissing people and dancing with people and having sex, it's hard.

HMS: That's very real. So are you doing online therapy?

A: Yeah, my psychiatrist is not technologically advanced enough to do a Zoom meeting or a FaceTime. So we’ve just been talking on the phone, but for me therapy each week is very grounding and important and there's no replacement for it in my opinion, for me at least.

HMS: Yeah, that's real.  I initially had an in-person therapist and then I switched to online because my work had this weird promo thing for free therapy for a while and it was a totally different thing. I mean for you I guess it's a little different because you already had a relationship with the person, but for me, meeting a therapist for the first time virtually I was just like I have no connection to you and I don't care about this and I'm not paying attention.

A:  Yeah, exactly. Even with this psychiatrist that I know and like a lot our meetings that are usually like an hour-long are 30 minutes phone appointments max, you know, because I don't know, I don't want to get into it. 

HMS: Yeah, I also felt super awkward taking therapy sessions from my bed. I was always like, I don't feel like I'm in the right space to be even having these conversations.

A: Well, yeah, that's the thing. I’ve really realized, how important having separate spaces is for me and the process of traveling to those spaces. My psychiatrist is like a 25 minute walk from my house and so I always walk it and it's a really good time to prep beforehand and then just completely clear my head afterwards. Not having that is really difficult and it's the same thing with work. It's like I really miss my BART commute and I never thought I would ever say that in the history of the world. 

HMS: I'm gonna remind you of this next time you complain about BART.

A: Yeah, totally. But I miss it. I miss public transit. 

HMS: That’s super real. I wasn't really thinking about the movement between places but it is this weird down time that you just have to take and fit into the schedule of your life in order to get to someplace that now we don't really think about.

A: Yeah, definitely. 

HMS: Interesting. Oh, yeah and on the dating side of things, are you on the apps at all right now? Like trying to virtually date like all the memes or no?

A: No, it just sucks because I was not dating anyone for a really long time and then recently I started dating three people sort of simultaneously because I just went back on the apps and happened to find three people that I really liked, it was really dope. But then shelter-in-place happened. I've been like going on FaceTime dates and stuff, which has been fine, but it sucks because sometimes there are technological problems or it just doesn’t work and it's so much easier when you have an activity or something. I don't know. Sometimes like when we hang up, it just makes me feel more lonely. 

HMS: Yeah, I totally feel that that last piece. It's bizarre. 

A: Yeah, it feels really good in the moment and then for 5 minutes after the call I'm just like well fuck like that's over.

HMS: Yeah, no physical contact and making out is a bummer.

A: Such a bummer. 

HMS: Anyways, hopefully this isn't for much too much longer? 

A: Yeah, for real for real. I think also what's hard for me is like not knowing how long any of it is going to happen for.

HMS: Totally, I agree because it could be a really long time and no one's told us that yet. Thinking about it being over, what do you think will be different about the world that we re-enter into after all of this?

A: Hmm, I think I'm such a nihilist that I don't think anything is going to change really. I've seen posts and stuff where people are waxing really poetically about how a new world is possible and how this is going to make all of us question these systems that are put in place, but I think it will be a return to normalcy in this really unfortunate way. I think people just want to forget it. It's a lot like the fires I feel. Like, obviously it drastically affects certain people but then it has other minimal effects on other people like staying indoors and sheltering-in-place. But then afterwards it's like how many precautions do we take to really hold PG&E accountable for fires...not that many, you know. So hopefully it'll make a change. Some days I feel optimistic, but at this moment I feel very nihilistic and very much like it's not going to really be that different. But who knows? 

HMS: No, I hear you. I'm kind of in the same boat. Some days I'm like, there's no way we can go back to normal, but I think just seeing things like the fires or just anything that happens, like school shootings, mass shootings, we freak out for a couple weeks and then we are just gaslit into thinking that this is normal, 

A: For me it's like a senator went into a meeting, found out about all this, and then profited off of it and we haven't even really been talking about that, you know? It's hard too because this is really making me realize the bubbles that I'm in on the internet. Like, okay well, these people are talking about it, but is it known on a larger scale? 

HMS: Yeah the bubbles have become really apparent during this. My work life is obviously very vastly different from my social life and even things like a rent strike, that is just not something that anyone at my work has thought about or heard about, whereas everyone in my social circles is like “well, I can't pay rent so I guess I'm just striking.” What does organizing and mutual aid work look like within your communities in the Bay or online? 

A: Well right now again, I'm pretty lucky in the sense that I haven't been laid off so I've just been trying to donate money as much as I possibly can. There's the Oakland Food Service Workers Fund and then various Go Fund Me’s and then people just helping random friends get groceries for the week. Venmo has been real popping lately. 

HMS: Yeah, I feel that.

A: I guess trying to share resources with people. My housemates and I are talking about what we're going to do – we have one person who's in contact with our landlord and we're trying to organize with the other properties our landlord owns. So far our landlord has sort of just been like crickets and that's been really complicated. For me, I'm just trying to stay as educated as possible but it's hard because there's a lot of conflicting information. I would say redistribution of wealth is what I've been trying to do as much as possible. I'm still not a wealthy person and am just trying to survive myself. 

HMS: Yeah, the redistribution of wealth thing is what I've been focusing on too. It seems like money is the main piece right now. And educating, but I feel like there are other people that are smarter than me that can do that piece. 

A: Yeah other people who have a better knowledge of the law and renters rights. It’s been really odd because so many of my friends live in Oakland, but I live in Berkeley, and so there are different laws. It has really made me realize that they just fuck us over in all these unique ways, you know? There's no reason for Oakland and Berkeley to have vastly different renters laws, but they do. 

HMS: Yeah they make it so hard.

A: So we're all just trying to figure it out in my house right now, but we'll see because rents due in like two days.

HMS: Yep. Okay, so at the start of shelter-in-place, like before everything went into lockdown, did you go out and buy stuff? And what was important to you? 

A: Yeah, I definitely went out and bought stuff. For me, getting my medication was the most important thing, definitely. Getting my psych meds was really important. And then when I was buying things I focused a lot on really easy-to-make food. I've seen a lot of people making these really intricate things but for me cooking is difficult and I don't really like it. Especially when I'm sad. So when I was buying food, I was like what's ready that I can eat? I bought a lot of frozen stuff, canned things, because when I'm depressed it's really hard to make food. And I've been very depressed for the past two weeks. 

HMS: Yeah, totally. I'm the kind of person that loves cooking and finds it very therapeutic and it helps with my anxiety if I can have a task, but I totally get that other people just don't feel that way at all. 

A: Yeah, I'm like that with baking but not cooking, weirdly enough. I think because baking is a lot more precise, whereas cooking is more chopping. Baking is just different, it's interesting. But yeah, I definitely focused on like ready-made comfort foods and making sure I had medication and soap and stuff. 

HMS: Are you feeling any anxiety surrounding the virus and if yes, what have been the ways that have helped you in dealing with that?

A: Yeah, especially since I'm staying with like my mom who's over 55. I've just been obviously sheltering-in-place, only going out to the grocery store and then to buy cigarettes, but definitely sanitizing things when we get them, limiting any contact that we can. So I have anxieties about being a carrier, not necessarily about people I know getting it, which might be a little hubris on my part. 

HMS: I don’t know, I feel the exact same way. I'm not I'm not worried about people that I know for the most part, I'm more worried about being a carrier like you said. 

A: Yeah, definitely because it can live on you for like 10 days and stuff and can live on different surfaces. I had to go to CVS to get my medication here in Stockton and it was wild because the suburbs are crazy and they have a drive-thru pharmacy and I was like, oh I'll just go to the drive-thru pharmacy, but that line was so long so I just went inside but I was so scared to touch anything. And then when I came home I sanitized everything. Washing hands a lot. 

HMS: So much hand-washing.

A: So much hand-washing. Yeah. 

HMS: Have you found any positives to the sheltering-in-place stuff? 

A:  Um, no...if I'm being totally honest. No.

HMS: Please be honest. 

A: Absolutely. Yeah, I if anyone has positives would love to hear them. But yeah, no, I found no positives.

HMS: The positives that I have heard are things like I talk to a mom who is really enjoying spending time with her son. But I think to find positives you have to have a lot of privilege of course.

A: It's all just so situational. But really selfishly, I was having a really good year thus far and so this really feels like really? It had to happen now? But yeah.

HMS: Damn, I'm so sorry. We’ll be back out there soon. You'll be back to dating three people 

A: Running around, going to work

HMS: Making out.

A: Just doing things. I miss going to the movies. I miss going to the library. I miss overpriced lattes. 

HMS: I actually talked to a librarian yesterday who lives in Ann Arbor and she told me that she'd worked at the library for eight years, on the busiest day that she had worked they checked out like 5,000 items, that was the busiest day across her eight years., and the day that they announced that they were going to have to lockdown and close for an extended period, they checked out 30,000 items. 

A: Are you fucking kidding me? 

HMS: Isn’t that nuts?

A: That is wild. I can't even fathom that. 

HMS: So yeah, libraries. 

A: Libraries, I miss them.

HMS: Okay last question I have for you. What are you feeling and thinking about the government response to the crisis? Either like locally, nationally, internationally, however you want to respond. 

A: I'm gonna keep this short: fuck them because they're not doing anything in anyway in my opinion.

Jenny Xie is a writer, editor, and cat mother.

Location: Oakland, CA
Day of quarantine: 22

HMS: Okay, so the first question I have for you is, where are you right now? And do you know what day of quarantine you're at? 

JX: Oh god. I am in my apartment in Oakland by the lake, and if I look at my calendar... I started working from home on March 9th. So, this is the beginning of the 4th week of quarantine. 

HMS: Wow, week 4...

JX: Week 4! 

HMS: Alright! And how are you feeling right now?

JX: At this moment, I am feeling strangely good? Maybe good’s not the right word for it. But I've recalibrated, it's been an emotional roller coaster. I feel like in the beginning it was very bewildering and there were a lot of waves of terror and panic, both on a personal level in terms of things that I was bummed about and also on the global level, thinking about how many people were going to die. Then it just kind of settled into the new normal and I found ways to feel more centered and present within this new normal. I was telling my friends, I've not been going out as much, obviously, or at all, so I got a lot of time back just in terms of not getting fucked up or feeling hungover. So that time has been returned to me and that's not happened in many, many years, so that's actually good. I think I'm in this upswing and also I think bracing for the worst, since we're approaching the peak. 

HMS: Yeah, I feel that. And are you working from home? 

JX: Yeah, I am currently working right now (laughs).

HMS: Good, good. And what are you doing? Do I even know what you do?

JX: I work at Dwell. So we have a New York office and an SF office and we're all remote now. I work mostly on the digital side, so it actually doesn't interfere with my day-to-day that much. It's a lot of online editing and publishing and I guess now more staying abreast of the news and trying to publish things that have to do with home and residences and sheltering in place. 

HMS: Kind of a good work situation. 

JX: Yeah, it’s been kind of nice, but I mean, it's always a good dose of escapism. The homes are ridiculous, but I think people want to see, they want a little bit of escapism. 

HMS: Oh totally, as a consumer of that kind of media I definitely want more of it. And also your apartment looks so cute in the background. 

JX: Oh, really? I've actually started moving, because I was supposed to go to a wedding in New York on May 24th and was planning to move anyway, so just bought a one-way ticket. Actually before everything happened I was freaking out about all my stuff! And I was kind of jumping the gun and selling furniture. Like I sold my bookshelves, and my nightstands, and bar stools and stuff like that. And at the time was like, oh fuck well now I have a couple of months and I don't have like a bookshelf. Now I really don't have that stuff and I don't know how long I'll be here. 

HMS: Damn, well it looks great, the plants look they're thriving, great job. 

JX: Thanks!

HMS: So are you anticipating that you do end up taking that flight in May or you think…? 

JX: No. No, not at all. I just haven't bit the bullet and canceled it yet because I'm lazy. 

HMS: Well, I tried canceling two flights and have not been able to get through. One of them already passed and the other ones coming up in April and both were with Delta. I just talked to this robot that was like “if your flight is not within 72 hours please call back at another time we're experiencing really high volumes of calls” and then just hung up on me.

JX: Wait so they're not letting you cancel your flight?

HMS: The message on their website was kind of cryptic, but I think my takeaway was that they're gonna honor missed flights regardless of whether or not you ended up getting through to cancel and just give you a credit because so many people are trying to cancel flights. They just can't process the cancellations. 

JX: Oh that’s wild maybe I should try sooner rather than later. Well, they haven’t even cancelled the wedding yet, which I find really wild. And she’s in New York. She sent out an email being like, “we’re gonna tell you in mid-April what’s going on,” which is kind of wild to me. 

HMS: May seems far away, but realistically it probably can't happen. 

JX: Even if for some reason we're out and about again, they keep saying it's going to come back in waves so it's probably not a good idea to have a big gathering so soon.

HMS: Yeah immediately get on a plane and go to a massive party.

JX: Yeah sounds good (laughs) let's all lick each other. 

HMS: Yeah, probably not the best. I actually have been thinking a lot about what it is going to be like when they lift the lockdown, like what are people gonna do? 

JX: I think about this constantly actually.

HMS: Because are people going to be scared or are they going to be like get me to a bar as soon as possible? 

JX: I don't know. I feel like there's gonna be an adjustment period where we’re like, “I don't know is this okay?” Aand when I was talking about being bummed on a personal level, I’m like, when I do get to New York it'll probably be a whole different kind of New York, it'll probably be a lot more intimate and slow. Until people start to feel comfortable again. Which I guess is fine, too

HMS: Yeah. We’ll have dinner parties and stuff. 

JX: Yeah.

HMS: I personally am excited for you and Kim to be out here. 

JX: Yeah, I'm excited too! Actually this is kind of working out. I was panicking. I was like, I love the Bay and I really want to go to New York, but it feels like it’s just coming up so fast. Now I'm just like okay cool I'm gonna have this period where I’m cooling off on panic and I’ll be ready to go when I'm able to.

HMS: Yeah, that's good. It's slowed down a bit. Do you know anyone who has tested positive for the virus? And did you have contact with them? 

JX: Oh, I don't know anyone who has tested positive. I definitely know people who think they have it/their doctors also think they have it, but they haven’t been tested. 

HMS: Yeah, I know a lot of folks that think they have it too. Have you yourself been sick at all with anything that you thought potential could have been Coronavirus?

JX: Not really, I did have a cold in the beginning but I don't think it was it, I think I just had a cold. 

HMS: Yeah, I had the same thing. At the beginning of quarantine I was like, I have it for sure. I have a fever, I'm congested and then I was like in two days it was gone. I was like I had allergies...

JX: (laughs) Yeah, I don't think I did

HMS: But it is scary!

JX: It is scary! And everyone has different manifestations of the symptoms it seems like, so you don’t really know.

HMS: Yeah, the weirdest one is the loss of taste, which went viral recently.

JX: Yes, new things are coming up all the time. 

HMS: Yeah, that's a super weird one. I mean, I guess if you're sick, you kind of like loose taste and smell a little bit anyways, but yeah. What has been your least favorite part of sheltering in place? Or like, the worst part?

JX: I mean the first thing the comes to mind is just like not being able to see people. It's kind of funny, because I'm writing a book and the main character is a professional cuddler, and in this draft I've been doing a lot of research already on the neurobiology of touch and how important it is. 

HMS: Wow.

JX: So I was already thinking about that and then this happened and I haven't touched anyone in a couple weeks and that's really hard, thank god for Trumer (her cat). One of the weeks I literally just pictured getting a hug and I started crying. I've actually been visiting my parents sometimes too. They’re in San Jose. Hopefully I won't do that too much, just not to go back and forth that much, but seeing them but not being able to hug them has been really weird, or seeing friends and staying far from them is also strange. That part has been hard. 

HMS: Yeah. I've been thinking a lot about the lack of touch, because I've been spending a lot of time on FaceTime. 

JX: Yeah!

HMS:  And so some days I'm like, this is fine, but then it isn't actually the same, it still feels like stuff is missing and I think touch is definitely a big piece of it. 

JX: For a while I was like, I'm actually socializing more than I was before because now it's not just the people in my city that I'm hanging out with, it's like, high school friends I haven't talked to in a really long time, or people who live in different places. Now it's possible to hang out. I mean it has always been possible to FaceTime them, but you just didn't, I didn't at least. I never called anyone, I never FaceTimed anyone.

HMS: Same.

JX: So I’m actually socializing more than usual, but I think at the end you just feel like there was that one element missing. 

HMS: Yeah, it's not the same. What do you think's going to be different, and you talked a little bit about this in regards to New York, but what do you think will be different about the world when this is all over? And by “this” I guess I mean the lockdown / quarantine, because who knows what all over really means? 

JX:  I mean, I don't know, on like a personal level or societal level?

HMS: Both!

JX: I think it's gonna be apocalyptic. My mind's racing, like there's the trauma that everyone will have gone through by then, everyone from people who are sheltering in place to people who are on the front lines, working at grocery stores, to health professionals obviously. Everyone's going to know someone who has died and that's going to be really traumatic but also economically, I'm not sure what's going to happen – livelihoods are going to be completely disrupted and I don't know how we're going to bounce back from that. What are people doing who are homeschooling, what are we going to do with rent, what are we going to do with mortgage? I don't know. I think it's gonna look really shattered, and I think a lot of people are going to be royally fucked and it's gonna be the most vulnerable communities who are going to be hurt most. But also I think coming out of this we're going to see how broken the system is. I think we'll be able to take some perspective and look at how we handled it versus other countries, or more granularly how state-by-state we handled it, or even city by city and maybe we'll learn from that.

HMS: Yeah, I agree. It's like holding up a mirror or something.

JX: Yeah, and a lot of really personal mirrors. Like what if you’re quarantining with someone that you just broke up with? Or like you come out of quarantine and you realize you need to break up with them? 

HMS: Yeah. This afternoon I've been thinking about whether to let the person that I was kind of dating into my quarantine environment. I haven’t so far because it felt kind of intense to like commit to that when we're not really at a committed point, but then it also feels kind of fucked up to be like I don't want to be around you, at the same time. 

JX: Yeah, actually, that's really funny because I'm doing the same thing. It's been a couple weeks, and I guess we also have different timelines because I was working from home, and he was in Tahoe for a while with a bunch of people, and I was seeing my parents, so I didn't really want to expose them…But I think I'm going to stop going to see them as much, so I think he and I are going to meet up. But I feel a moral quandary about it, because it's like none of this is completely safe, even though it's been two weeks since he went to Tahoe and was exposed to a bunch [of people]. So I think we're both fine, but you never know.

HMS: Yeah.

JX: Do you remember that thing with Lyft and Uber? Where you can't get into a Pool unless you're a “real couple.” 

HMS: No…

JX: They have this rule, I think it was Lyft actually, they passed this thing where they're not doing Pools anymore because of obvious reasons, but “real couples” can get into Lyfts together. And of course everyone was like well, how are you supposed to prove that? Are you supposed to make out in front of the Lyft driver? But I feel like this decision is another example of me being like “I know we're not a real couple” because we're dealing with this, whereas “real couples” who are quarantined, for them it wouldn't be such a big question. 

HMS: Yeah, that’s true.

JX: Well, I mean we knew that before but this is just you know…

HMS: It’s weird! Like it's one thing to not define what you're doing, but it's another thing to kind of define it by not being serious enough to quarantine together.

JX: Yeah, it’s like a weird quarantine test for your relationship. 

HMS: But honestly that’s better than breaking up and then having to quarantine together.

JX: That's way better. 

HMS: Yeah. 

JX: Yeah, I've lived with someone I broke up with before, which is terrible. But are you going to see that person? 

HMS: Um, well I texted her this afternoon. I was like, “I think that we should have a conversation about seeing each other during quarantine.” (laughs) So we’ll see.  But she has a lot of roommates, so I wouldn’t want to go over there. It would be a matter of her coming here and then also me trusting that everyone in her house is being safe, and I don’t know them.

JX: Yeah how many people does she live with?

HMS: Five.

JX: Oh, that's a lot.

HMS: Yeah, so I don't 

JX: Yeah, he has two roommates. But yeah, it's like I don't know what they've been doing. And even if they've been doing everything by the book, you still need to go out for groceries and stuff. 

HMS: Yeah, because it's like no matter how responsible you’re being, you could still be exposed and it’s nobody's fault when that happens but by choosing to see this guy then you're just opening up the possibility. 

JX: Yeah. It's like literally I'm taking a life-or-death risk for dick...which is really upsetting. 

HMS: Yeah, but you also have been reading a lot about the neurobiology of touch…

JX: Yeah! It's for my own wellness. 

HMS: Yeah. Well, good luck.

JX: Thanks. 

HMS: Okay. So right before all of this stuff started happening when you knew shelter in place was coming, did you go out and panic-buy anything? And in that moment what was what was important for you to have? 

JX: No, I did not at all. I'm really bad at just being prepared for stuff. So no, I have not panic-bought anything. Even when I did do my grocery shopping, I still couldn't bring myself to buy enough for more than two weeks. It just seemed absurd. I mean, I also haven’t  grocery shopped in a while, so maybe when I do go out I will grab stuff. I will say the only thing I bought multiples of was 24 packs of White Claw.

HMS: Oh my god, I love that. Honestly the number of times I've run out of beer and wine and had to run to the bodega because it’s too heavy to carry that in bulk back from the grocery store is pretty ridiculous, and I constantly want to be drinking after work. 

JX: Yeah, exactly and I can maybe I don't know, not eat lentils for a while, but I need something to drink.

HMS: Yeah, so your eating habits haven't really changed then? You're not like out here making sourdough bread and stuff like everyone else on Instagram?

JX: No! I wish I were! Everyone seems to be baking and trying new recipes and I'm like, I bought alphabet-shaped chicken nuggets and tater tots. I've been pretty lucky in that sense I guess, I haven’t felt a huge lack of anything. I'm also stocked up on toilet paper which might have made a difference. 

HMS: That's good. Yeah, I just opened my last 4-pack and I'm like should I go look for toilet paper now or am I good? 

JX: Yeah, I don't know!

HMS: I did a grocery run for a neighbor this weekend and the toilet paper shelf was completely empty. 

JX: Yeah, the last time I was with my parents my mom yelled at me for using too much toilet paper, because they're low and we went to several stores and they had a rationing conversation about toilet paper. Like my dad I was literally like I can use a roll every three weeks and you use this much, and we have this much, so that means will last this long…

HMS: It's real, yeah. Mollie actually just texted me a picture from Target and they have signs up saying you can only have one package of toilet paper. 

JX: Who knew that this would be the thing? 

HMS: Yeah, did not expect it. 

JX: I guess I just don't have a panic mentality. I have a lot of friends saying go out and buy pepper spray and I'm like what...why? Or like the lines around the block for guns. That's really scary. 

HMS: Yeah, my safety, like my like physical safety, wasn't something that I even questioned, but I guess a lot of people really thought they needed guns, 

JX: Yeah, my neighbors texted me like, “we have a lot of outdoor survival gear,” and I'm like what you think this virus is gonna do? It's not a zombie situation. Who knows though, we haven't seen this through yet. 

HMS: True, could turn into a zombie apocalypse. Well actually, before lockdown went into place I remember I was on the subway and two separate times someone started coughing on people intentionally, and at one point a woman spat on someone…she was wearing a face mask and pulled it down and spat on somebody…and I was like, maybe this is what people are worried about, people intentionally spreading the virus.

JX: But like, you wouldn't want either party to have a weapon in that case. Like just spitting on each other and not pepper spraying or shooting each other…

HMS: Yeah, no definitely not ideal, but maybe that's why. So you said that you were at Eli’s the last time you hung out with people? Who were you with and what were you doing?

JX: It was our friend Estella DJing that night. She is Mara, Kim's partner, Mara's ex. She was DJing so I was there with Kim and Mara and their friends Scott and David, we were just hanging out, I was shaking hands, I was sharing cigarettes. At that point I think I was worried but then I got drunk and stopped worrying. 

HMS: I think the last party I went to I was watching people share drinks and I was like not there, I was like I would never do that right now, but I think I shared a cigarette with somebody, I was definitely shaking hands and stuff.

JX: Yeah, I mean it did cross my mind at the time but the SF lockdown hadn't happened either. I definitely had it in my head that this will be the last time I'm out for a while. 

HMS: Okay, what are some of the positive ramifications that you've seen in terms of sheltering in place for you, personally? 

JX: I think a little bit of what I was saying before, of taking a lot of time back for me and becoming a little bit more intentional with it. I had a book revision schedule that I wrote out that I was trying to stick to before I left for New York, and I'm actually still barely sticking to it, which just goes to show I was being way too optimistic. But it's actually good that I have a little bit more time. I don't know that this feeling is going to last very long but in the past week I've just really calmed down and felt like I was seeing more clearly. I was able to look at my life in a way that I haven't been doing because I went from panic-mode of trying to move and plan social things and see everyone before I go, to now have all of that removed. And it's been really nice to talk to people that I haven't in a really long time and really remember how important my friends and family are to me. Memes at least during this time are really good, like it’s the golden age of memes for sure. So, I don't know I'm just very grateful for the internet, and I'm trying to think of the 1918 pandemic and how scary that was because there's no information and no way to see each other. 

HMS: Oh god, yeah. 

JX: But at least we are able to be constantly connected. 

HMS: Yeah. That's a really good point. 

JX: I can't imagine, you couldn't even tell each other what Target has toilet paper!

HMS: Yeah, so true. Okay, last question I have for you. What have you thought about the government's response to the crisis like locally, nationally?

JX: Nationally, it's been a shit show. Trump keeps waffling about how serious this is and just ca not get it together. I think we're in the worst possible hands in that case. It's not like we didn't have warning, we had months and months of warning and we just could not get it together. And he disbanded the pandemic task force, we’re short on all equipment, I don't think he's doing enough to curb xenophobia. Calling it The Chinese Virus is making me really scared for the Asian American Community. Statewide, I think Gavin Newsom was one of the first to shut down the state, and I think he's been doing a pretty good job. I think in general the Bay Area has moved fairly quickly in relation to other parts of the country, so that is good. But I mean that doesn't really fix fundamental problems in terms of like, what are we going to do about rent? How are we going to get the equipment that we need? We don’t have the tools even though we have the right mindset, or at least close to the right mindset.

HMS: Yeah, that makes sense. I remember the Bay’s shelter-in-place going into effect before New York's even though New York had so many more cases already. I was like I wonder when we're gonna do that? And Cuomo was like “I don't believe in quarantining, it sounds scary,” and then a day later had to be like, “yeah, we're going to do this.”

JX: It was really funny to be with my parents too, because they were following Coronavirus since China, and my mom just kept saying how dumb Americans are. She was just like, “it's very simple, just stay home and take it seriously.” And she's like, “Americans don't know to wash their hands? And they wear shoes indoors?” (laughs) I don't know. I mean, it's just the Western mindset, I think. We're not used to taking that kind of order from the government at all. 

HMS: Yeah, I remember listening to The Daily way before this really started in terms of quarantining here, and that was the biggest piece of it. They were like America isn't mentally prepared to be told what to do, which I thought was really interesting and wasn’t something that I had thought about when it comes to why China and Korea did really good jobs with quarantining and locking down. 

JX: Right, they had strict rules, but it was also like culturally they were more set up to do it. Where we’re all about individualism (laughs).

HMS: Yeah, it's been interesting to watch the mutual aid stuff and the community organizing that's sprung up around some of this stuff. I don’t know what it’s like in the Bay, but here it's like everyone feels very involved, which is nice. 

JX: Yeah, there's been a lot of that. It’s really awesome, people setting up funds, and stepping in where governments aren’t, which is really great.

Ruth is a culture writer based in the East Bay who’s likely on deadline right at this moment. She feels most herself when she’s on a long, aimless walk.

Location: Berkeley, CA
Day of quarantine: 26

MU: All right, Ruth, our first question for you is how are you feeling right now? 

R: Right now? I'm okay. It swings, you know, there are swings. I'm in an okay swing right now.

MU: Good. Are you able to work from home? And if so, what does that look like for you?

R: I am able to work from home. What it looks like is I sort of move around different corners of my apartment to find both ergonomically and spiritually pleasing corners (laughs).

HMS: What have those corners been?

R: On my couch where I am now. But if I sit here too long, I get lower back pain. There's another corner over there that gets really good morning light, that’s one of my first stops. And then I am also at my dining room table and my kitchen table, those are the more formal work spaces that kind of resemble a desk and allow me to get serious about writing. I feel very lucky that my apartment is large enough to have such diverse options for sitting and working, but I feel restless still.

MU: Are you going on your work-break-walks?

R: I have been. I've been walking at least every other day. Typically I walk two or three miles. My ideal is a two-hour walk. 

HMS: What direction do you walk in? Do you walk further into Berkeley?

R: Yeah, I walk further into Berkeley, I typically walk West, no East rather, to watch the sunset. So I walk East into the hills; the higher the better. I typically end up at the rose garden. And then I watch the sunset and I walk back in that sort of orange light. That's my ideal walk. And I don't always know which street I'm gonna take, I like to switch it up, but if I let my body just walk I always end up in front of the same houses, in the same corners. It's very strange, it makes me want to read about how our bodies process direction...like how do I always end up at this one house even though I’m not intending to? But yeah ideally a two hour walk every other day. 

MU: Do you know anyone who's tested positive for COVID? 

R: I don't know anyone who has tested positive, but I know people who have likely had it. 

MU: Had it within the last 20-something days or prior? 

R: Had it in the last month.

MU: Have you had any symptoms yourself that you worried about?

R: I have not. 

MU: That's good, and do you have health insurance? 

R: I finally do and I made..I guess you can quote me on this, it's fine, I had my first OBGYN appointment under my new insurance. I was returning back to a carrier I used to have, and I was excited to see my doctor who's my primary care doctor also, and I had to cancel it since the outbreak because all non-essential appointments had been asked to cancel. So I have had insurance, but only in theory. 

HMS: That’s so funny. Last night at like 8:45pm I got a call from a New York number and I didn't know who it was but I was like, oh, it's in New York, like maybe it's a neighbor or something that needs something, so I answered it and it was my fucking dentist telling me that they were gonna cancel my appointment that was on Thursday, and I was like, I haven't thought about you guys since I came in 6 months ago (laughs).

R: My dentist who I haven't seen in so long has been the most thorough communicator throughout this, the government should take tips from dentists. 

MU: Dentists with the come-through. I think dentists, podiatrists, specialized medicine people are like really good communicators, because they are people you forget either by accident or by will, so they’re just like, “hi” (laughs).

MU: What has been your least favorite part of sheltering in place?

R: Of sheltering in place specifically...I think it's taken the joy of being home and turned it a bit into punishment. I don't like the idea that the outside world is my enemy. I don't like the idea that the only safety I have is when I'm at home, so I resent how it can make me think that. I've had to reframe for myself that the world is not necessarily bad and inside is good, and step away from that dichotomy into more of a nuanced version, that me being home right now is protecting me, it’s protecting others. Even though that's very clear to me, I want to continue to reframe it so that I'm not thinking that the world outside is dangerous and this home that I've lived in for so long is a place where I get sent for punishment, but rather a place that I'm very grateful to have and to rest in.

MU: Good answer. 

R: Thank you so much.

MU: What do you see being the difference in the world after this is all over?

R: My faith wavers constantly over whether it will be different or not. I think about the fact that a huge part of being human is being really adaptable. When I went to the grocery store for the first time in a while last week we were all standing six feet apart to get into the grocery, and we all know how to form a line, we all know how to follow instructions and we had to leave our bags behind and make sure we only brought in our wallets. Everyone is so quick to adapt to those rules. I'm afraid that that thing that might be helping us now to adapt to these new circumstances will – when those circumstances slowly make way for whatever world’s to come – allow us to adapt once again and not adapt with what just happened in mind. Afraid that we will forget everything and sort of adapt to whatever world comes after this and try to return to normalcy quote-unquote. But I hope everything changes. I hope everything changes from this: from tenants rights, to healthcare, to voter disenfranchisement. I hope this changes, ideally nothing is the same, right? But I'm not sure that that will be the case. 

MU: People just want to go back to normal. 

R: Yeah, I feel that there are so many organizers and people who've really been activated by this and have always been doing the work and now their work feels more relevant, but I don't know, sometimes I'm just like... I think that being really adaptable and seeking comfort can return us right back where we started. 

MU: Mhm. Did you panic-buy anything or was there anything you felt like was necessary to have when the outbreak happened and when the shelter in place was put into place?

R: I have to think really hard about this because I mean, I'm such a virtuous person (laughs). No, did I panic-buy anything? I was  running low on a bean that I really like, so I bought a second bag of that, but no, that's not a panic buy. I did just buy stuff online for the first time in a long time, like deodorant and mouthwash and stuff like that. No, no, I didn't panic-buy anything. Vegetables, no. I think I tried to sort of take this moment also just to not buy things. 

MU: You mentioned it a little bit, but what organizing have you been seeing? 

R: I have been seeing a lot of organizing around tenants rights and housing. That's it, actually. Oh, no, healthcare organizing. I have friends who work in healthcare who've been demanding the hospitals they work at provide them with personal protective gear, masks and things like that. 

MU: Totally. So what have you been eating lately? Even if it's not out of the ordinary. 

R: Well, I'm vegan plus fish right now because it's Orthodox Lent and it's something I do every year. I've been eating basically the same thing. Last week for a few days I was so sick of cooked food, I had just been cooking food and eating cooked food and I think my stomach was like you cannot keep doing this, so I sort of switched to eating only raw meals and then maybe eating one cooked meal a day. That was really nice and I might go back to that. I think being at home and cooking a lot for someone like me who can spend a lot of time cooking, my stomach is just like huh? Since when? So I think my body is craving more like raw meals. 

MU: I just had a salad last night and I was like, thank god. 

R: Yeah, thank god, right. And it's hard because winter salads, not appealing. It's a bit too cold, especially in the Bay, it’s been kind of cold. So I'm trying to figure it out, doing flax smoothies and eating so many citrus fruits in general. I’m eating a ton of oranges and mandarins, every kind of sweet citrus. But yeah, I'm eating more or less the same things. Dipping back into old recipes I haven’t made, recipes is like a bad word, just old things I haven’t made in a while. Beans always. And then, what else? A lot of greens; I’ve been making collards a lot more, hearty winter greens. 

MU: Delicious. Do you have anxieties surrounding the coronavirus?

R: So, where do you want me to start? I can itemize (laughs). 

MU: (laughs) Start at the big stuff. 

R: I think my biggest anxiety, which demonstrates itself from personal to family unit to a more global scale, is that a pandemic of this kind will expose inequities and exaggerate them in a tremendous way. And so much of that has been proven true already with the early numbers that we’re seeing of who's dying from coronavirus in the United States. 

MU: Yep. 

R: And seeing how many elderly people who are sort of segregated to live a life separate from society are also dying, that is worrisome to me. But it just exposes everything we're doing wrong at a systemic level, down to a personal level. Like a family unit is often run the same way a government is (laughs). You know what I mean? That kind of holds all my anxieties. Inequity does a good job at calling all those out, I'm afraid. 

MU: And making them worse.

R: Yeah, making them worse, and just blatantly we will see who dies from this. It will be black people, brown people, poor people, that's just what it is. Yeah, that inequity, let's just say that, ‘cause if I go around…I don't even know.

MU: Who's the last person that you socialized with before your sheltering? 

R: Ugh! Like touched? Like actually like, hugged goodbye? I had my friend Shushan over the Thursday that shelter in place got ordered. And then either her or I got in touch with our other friends Yared and he came over and I made them dinner and I hugged them goodbye, and those are the last people that I hugged. 

MU: How long have you been at home? 

R: Um, four plus weeks, not four, three plus weeks. When did it start? It’s been 1, 2, 3, I think it will be a month on Thursday. The 12th was the last time I was outside of my house, in that way. 

HMS: Sounds about right.

MU: What has been the biggest shift in your life or in your lifestyle during this time?

R: The biggest shift is that I cannot see my mom the way I like to see my mom. 

MU: Aw.

R: Yeah, I think that's the biggest, the most absurd part. Every time that my mom comes by to drop something off or if I have something for her that I want to give her, this weird exchange that we do – that’s been the strangest part of it all. And sometimes it's funny, and other times it’s maddening, it just depends . But I think she's one of those people who can't help but come by, so sometimes she like drops off Tylenol because she heard it's better than Ibuprofen, and then she’ll text me as she's driving away like, “I dropped something off for you.” It’s hilarious but the only way that we can show that we care for each other is by making each other food or buying each other things that we might need and exchanging these items. It's so strange that that's the only way we care. Of course we talk and we FaceTime but these like little clandestine exchanges are so funny to me. I'm like what? This is what our relationship is now? 

HMS: Yeah, seeing people but not getting to engage fully is honestly weirder to me than the Zoom calls. And I actually hadn't seen anybody until yesterday since I started quarantine, so like a month ago. But Sarah came by and I made cookies and she brought me like a nice loaf of bread and we traded those goods and then just sat six feet apart on my stoop, and we didn't know what to do when we saw each other. Like what do you do? How do you greet somebody if you can't touch them in some way? It was bizarre. 

R: And it's like of course my mom and I had previously given each other things, she's brought me flowers for years and food, and I've tried to do the same for her, but that it's been just that, that all of our interactions and shows of gratitude and other body language has been funneled into this very quarantine-exchange of items. It's just absurd. I saw one of my friends, she came by to drop off garlic for me because she knew I had run low, and I was so giddy. Just the sight of a friend at my house, unannounced, that wasn't this big production of “I'm going to come by!” you know? I was literally just giddy and then we talked in the rain for an hour and she drove away, and I was like this is so weird.

MU: Yeah…

R: It's very strange.

MU: I feel as though my love language has been quality time. I haven't done so many acts of service, but I feel like I've been obsessively checking in on as many people as possible.

R: I've been kind of isolating, I'm not gonna lie. I've not been the best person checking in with folks, and I'm always like taken when other people do it, but my life has gone very hyper-localized. It’s just me and my walk. 

MU: Yeah, have you found positive aspects of sheltering in place for you?

R: No. Because I still have to work. So it's this weird new battleground of productivity and home life. Home is work and home and play and home is rest. The positive is that I have a home to grapple with these ideas, and I have a job where I can grapple too, but I've always loved my house. I've loved leaving it, I loved returning to it. It's not a lesson I needed to learn this way. 

HMS: Damn. I love that line.

R: I did not need this. (laughs)

MU: This is not for me (laughs). Let's see…what do you think about the government, how they’ve dealt with this, their response?

R: Horrible, it gives me absolutely no sense of comfort. None of my sense of comfort around this has come from the government. State, local, federal. None of it, none of my hope comes from government agencies, it absolutely comes from people, and people's actions and organizing. It has nothing to do with the government response. There is still so much under-testing. When you look at the most positive cases of coronavirus outbreaks, like namely South Korea, and you look at how they were able to act in time, and with the highest regard for their citizens, it's very clear that that's not what's happening in the United States. It's not what's happening in California. It's not what's happening in Berkeley. So I just don't see any reason for hope or comfort inside the government agencies. 

MU: Yeah, it does feel like it started with this joke of the celebrities and the rich people getting the tests, but then it’s no longer funny once no one else had access to them. 

R: Yeah it’s outrageous. It's outrageous how under-tested we are as an entire country. 

MU: And maybe intentionally…?

R: Maybe intentionally, but I don't care about the intention. It's neglectful anyway. Whatever the intention might be, it’s deeply neglectful and negligent. It's so concerning. 

MU: Yeah, I totally agree with what you were saying about it not only showing us our weaknesses but also just exacerbating them.

R: Yeah. 

MU: Which is hard to watch. 

R: Yeah, it's hard to watch and it's hard for folks to experience it. I mean social distancing and quarantining are inherently privileged actions. And it starts from that and it goes to if you're infected or not, how you get treated once you're infected, the history of institutionalized racism inside our medical system. It's weaved in in such an impressive fashion, you know? It's fucking the worst. It's gonna be so not good, there will be nothing good that comes of this. I hate when people are like, good art will come in bad times. I'm like fuck art. 

MU: (laughs) Not right now, yeah...

R: Yeah, fuck art. I don't care about art. People are trying to live. 

HMS: Yeah.

R: I care about this project, guys. (all laugh)

MU: You just ruined it. We’re throwing it away.

HMS: This isn't art, this is history.

R: It is history, yeah. It's good to remember how this feels because it will change. 

HMS: Yeah, I don’t know how it’s been for you Mollie but talking to such different people in different areas of the country who don’t even have that different backgrounds necessarily but who are having such different experiences now and what’s been important to different people. Whether it’s medication, or their community, or how their lives have shifted for folks that can’t work and folks that can. For me, because I’m alone I guess, it’s really easy to feel like I’m living inside a bubble. And I know New York is a shitstorm, like it’s one of the worst places in the country, but I’m not leaving my house so I’m not really noticing anything. It’s been good to talk to other people about what’s going on. 

MU: It’s been interesting to hear from different ends of the spectrum, because you can always talk to someone who says their life hasn’t changed whatsoever, there are those people and then there are the other people where everything has changed or is up in the air. 

R: I also think that for some people it's really important to them for their life not to change, right? I'm not one of those people. I don't hope to stay the same. I really hope that I can be a part of actualizing a different reality. And right now that’s through organizing: I try to write and be a part of looking at what models are resilient, which ones are not. I don't like service journalism to be honest, there's like a moral virtue angle that it takes, so I don't know if that's what I'm doing, necessarily, but what I'm trying to do is take a look at what models are built for equity, and which ones are not. That's sort of how I'm operating coronavirus coverage. 

MU: Yeah. Those are all of our questions for you.

R: Did I pass?

HMS: (laughs) A+

[final thoughts post-recording…]

R: It’s part comfort but it’s also part reminder that the world will function as-is unless it's really actively interrupted and is formed in another way. Like a plant will just keep growing unless you twist it to grow a different direction. I don't know. I also hate eco-fascist notions like “the water in Venice is cleared up, the dolphins have returned.” I don't believe that humans are necessarily the virus, I think it’s systems. I don't believe that humans are the virus at all. But I'm curious about in what ways we can be better suited to stay healthy when something like this happens. I don’t know guys, maybe I'm about to hit a really dark swing real quick. 

MU: I apologize if we brought that on.

R: (laughs) It’s not your fault!

HMS: Yeah, you were feeling good at this start, remember that.

R: I know, but it's been like this. It's been so many swings and I'm trying to be patient with myself.

MU: I’d like to think everyone can relate to that.

Ricky is a musician and artist living in the Hudson Valley. They love psychic stuff and being in nature.

Location: Hudson, NY
Day of quarantine: 31

HMS: How are you feeling right now? 

R: Today I woke up feeling anxious and behind. 

HMS: Behind? 

R: Yeah, I felt behind. 

HMS: Behind on what? 

R: Exactly! That's what I’ve been trying to figure 

HMS: Whoa

R: I know. I think it's just that I had a few calls that I needed to do that I didn't put in my calendar...like this one. So that's part of it. And then once I figured out what the things were I started to feel a little bit better. 

HMS: Yeah, that's good. Okay. Yeah and what does work look like for you?

R: Right now work is me doing tarot for people and finding the energy to maybe apply to a grant 

HMS: Okay. 

R: And making music with a friend. 

HMS: Okay. Do you know anyone who has tested positive for covid-19? And have you been in contact with them? 

R: No, luckily. It's very lucky. 

HMS: Yeah. The only person that I guess I know personally is my coworker that got multiple people in my office sick. But not me.

R: So multiple people got covid?

HMS: Yeah. Only one person got tested but then a lot of other people got sick and had fever symptoms and they thought they had it but they weren't able to get tested.

R: Damn. I'm happy that it didn't happen to you. 

HMS: I know me too. Yeah, but I was careful about it and locked myself away for two weeks. Just in case. Have you been sick with any symptoms that you thought could have been related to Coronavirus during this time? 

R: I've had panic attacks, which made me think I had shortness of breath. 

HMS: Mmm. That's real. 

R: It's a sick joke that they feel so similar. 

HMS: Mmm-hmm, that's really stressful. Yeah managing the anxieties around coronavirus is a whole thing in and of itself.

R: Yeah, that's a whole thing.

HMS: Damn, well, I hope you have less panic attacks. 

R: Thanks. 

HMS: Do you have access to health insurance on the off chance that you do get sick with coronavirus? 

R: I have Medicaid. Would that be great? I don't know. 

HMS: I don't know either, better than nothing I guess. 

R: Better than nothing. 

HMS: Well, I hope you don't get sick, but it's good to have insurance. 

R: Yeah, I'm grateful. 

HMS: Okay, what has been your least favorite part of having to shelter in place? 

R: Hmm, that’s a good question, my least favorite part of having to shelter in place. Probably not being able to go on a trip. 

HMS: Mmm. Did you have something planned or just in general? 

R: Oh yeah, I had a whole euro tour planned.

HMS: Oh fuck. 

R: I know I keep forgetting about but I was gonna go to the Netherlands and Portugal and where else? Yeah, I was just gonna go on a tour for April and May. 

HMS: Damn. 

R: And then my partner was going to have surgery in Argentina. So all of those things got canceled. 

HMS: Damn. Yeah. Wow, I'm sorry. 

R: Yeah, I don't think about it that much for some reason. But when I say it, I'm like, oh there was a whole bunch of stuff that was going to happen.

HMS: Yeah, I was supposed to go to Mexico last month and the trip started the week after shelter-in-place went into effect. So even the week before I was like, maybe we'll still go, maybe it's gonna be okay. And then we were like thank God we didn't get on that flight and get stuck.

R: I'm glad that didn't happen. 

HMS: That's horrible though. And I saw all this news about how concerts are going to be banned for like 2 years or something. 

R: Yeah until like 2022. 

HMS: But maybe it's different for smaller shows? Like a show versus a festival. 

R: Yeah, or a stadium. Part of me coming here was that I wanted a break from performing, so okay fine, but I don't know how long that feeling will last. And I'm hoping that there will be different alternatives for shows. We'll see. 

HMS: Have you been doing Zoom shows and stuff like that at all?

R: No. Part of the fun is to feel the audience.

HMS: Right and especially for your shows – they're so emotional and intimate. 

R: Yeah, I feel like it wouldn’t be as gratifying 

HMS: Totally. So do you know what day of shelter-in-place you're at?

R: Wow. I have no idea. I just didn't mark it. Maybe I could look in my journal. I feel like I was in denial for a long time. So I probably didn't even write about it...Ok, so by March 18th, I was still doing my thing, out and about. 

HMS: What does that mean? Like you were at work or you just weren't social distancing?

R: Yeah, but also I don't have that many friends here. 

HMS: I was just gonna ask whether you guys had a different lock down date than we did in the city, because I think for us it was sometime around the 18th probably, like mid-march. There was like one weekend when they were like okay it’s over. 

R: Yeah, I think it was around then because I think it's by state 

HMS: That make sense. Yeah. Okay, well when you were preparing to be locked down and sheltering in place, did you go out and buy a bunch of stuff to prepare for it and what was important to you to have for the quarantine?

R: I did. My friend and I made some herbal medicine together and then I did go get a bunch of food stuff and I guess cleaning supplies. 

HMS: Yeah smart. And then related to that, what have you been eating lately? Has anything stood out as your quarantine meal? 

R: I eat a smoothie every day. I love smoothies. 

HMS: Oh I did see that on your Instagram. 

R: Yeah, I was coming out. Um, what else do I have every day? Hmm, it changes a lot. Lots of avocados, lots of sandwiches. This place near me still does pick up, so I'll get Thai food, some green curry.

HMS: I feel like getting takeout is such a treat these days. I do it so rarely, but when I do it I'm so grateful that I didn't have to cook a meal. 

R: Me too! It feels like heaven. It feels vacation.

HMS: So sad, but it does.

R: It feels so good. Yeah, so that's a special time, getting my green curry. 

HMS: This is might be a really stupid question but do they have Seamless [delivery] and stuff in Hudson? 

R: No, they don't!

HMS: Whoa, so you would really have to go out and get it. 

R: I’m roughing it! 

HMS: Do you have a car? How do you get around? 

R: I walk. [My partner] has a car, so I borrow it. 

HMS: Okay, that's that's good. Damn, that’s so funny.

R: I know. It's kind of loco. 

HMS: Have you been feeling any anxiety surrounding the virus and the effects of the virus on the world? And then related, have you found anything that's helping with those specific anxieties?

R: Klonopin helps a lot. And chamomile tea. And running, recently.

HMS: Running, wow. That's something I keep being like, I'm going to start doing this tomorrow. 

R: No, I feel you. I also started playing soccer, which has helped. 

HMS: That is so fun and dreamy. I just bought a soccer ball. 

R: Ooh, it's so fun. I feel like you played right? 

HMS: Yeah, I played for a long time. 

R: I would love to play with you. You're probably good. 

HMS: I haven't played in many years.

R: Were you defense? 

HMS: No, I was right-mid. I was the runner. What did you play? 

R: I was striker. 

HMS: Oh, I knew that actually. 

R: Yeah, I feel like we've talked about this before me. 

HMS: That's so fun. 

R: But what was the question before the coping mechanisms? 

HMS: Oh, whether you are feeling any anxiety about the virus specifically, and the ramifications of it? 

R: Yeah, I mean mourning people dying so much. My mom's a nurse, so worried about her all the time.

HMS: Where's your mom? 

R: She's in Texas. In Houston. I think those have been my biggest fears probably and just what the new normal will look like, after things subside. 

HMS: Yeah, one of my other questions is what do you think that new normal is going to look like? What do you think's going to be different about the world that we return into? 

R: I think there's gonna be a lot of anger. A lot of people are going to be angry about the way that they or their families or their loved ones were handled during this time. And maybe that will lead to more skepticism and mistrust of the government. I there's going to be a lot of hilarious memes about touching when it comes back.

HMS: Definitely. 

R: I think they're going to be some surprising relationships form.

HMS: (laughs) What does that mean? 

R: I feel like desire is going to change. People are going to be more grateful to touch someone. I don't know, I feel like desire is going to change somehow.

HMS: That's interesting. I could see it. I hadn't thought about that. 

R: Yeah, I wonder if people will be more flirty or more coy or what.

HMS: Well, I don't know. It could also be that people are going to be more afraid, right? And then they're going to be less frequently intimate with people. But on the other hand, everyone’s starved for touch and attention. Who knows.

R: Who knows. I was thinking about last night if celebrity’s gonna be different. 

HMS: You’re not the first person that I’ve heard that from. 

R: Really? Just because more people are being faced with mortality in a deeper way, so then maybe their minds drift into...or they're more concerned about themselves than a celebrity. I also wonder what restaurants and food is going to be like.

HMS: Yeah, I heard from someone, I forget who they were, but somewhere where lockdown is coming to an end in some ways, and they were talking about that when restaurants reopen people have to sit further away, so restaurants will have less. 

R: Oh that's interesting. 

HMS: Yeah even at work things will change. I was talking to a co-worker who has a friend who's responsible for the buildings and the food systems at all the offices and they're having to redesign the entire office experience. Right now there’s snack stations on every floor, but nobody wants to share stuff like that anymore. Nobody wants to sit as close as they used to to their co-workers and they're thinking cubicles might come back into fashion instead of the open floor tech world office plans. 

R: Wow.  I wonder what the club is going to be like. Probably It's going to be a little bit the same. 

HMS: I think so, I think that's one place that people really want to return to as soon as possible. But that seems like the worst place for viral spreading, like a sweaty basement. I'm thinking about H0l0 and Gush – that is such a hotbed of viral exchange.

R: It is! How have you liked the online programming? 

HMS: Um, I've liked some better than others. BUFU did that 24-hour party, which I thought was super fun because you could see all of these different people all over the world dancing and the DJ's were awesome. But I've been to others where I'm just not in the mood to party alone. I think you have to be the right mindset.

R: Yeah, the BUFU one really set a high standard. 

HMS: For sure. I went to a birthday party last night on Zoom, and I was just like eh I don't really care about this, which is fucked up because it was someone's birthday, but I was like mmm no.

R: Was it a dancing thing or people talking?

HMS: Yeah it was DJs and people dancing.

R: That’s funny.  

HMS: I like programming where people are talking. I love to just sit and listen to people talk. But the party stuff I don't think translates super. 

R: Yeah, I like that too where you're just listening to people talk. 

HMS: What has been the biggest shift in your life since the pandemic started?

R: Maybe that more people are anxious too, so more conversations about that, which is lucky. I mean, I'm lucky that I have a house and food and that I'm not in a place where numbers are that high. So just the emotions of it all, and that other people are feeling all sorts of ways and that I feel sorts ways and then we can talk about it. So I guess maybe friendships. Friendships feel closer to me than they did before.

HMS: Totally, that’s a positive. 

R: Yeah, that's about it. But I feel bad that it's a positive 

HMS: Don't feel bad! It’s good to find positives. Okay, last question I have for you is do you have any thoughts on how the government has responded to the crisis either locally, nationally, or internationally? 

R: I just wish we weren't so reliant on them. And I wish that we had community structures that supported each other and saw that as more reliable than the government. I think I usually protect myself from disappointment from the government by not expecting anything from them. I'm also privileged enough that I have friends or a mom or ways of making money that help me, you know? But for a long time I’ve felt very divested from the government as a savior. Yeah. I can’t get it up for that. (laughs)

HMS: That’s perfect. Well, thank you for that!

R: Thanks for interviewing. It's nice to reflect.

HMS: I appreciate you making time.

Semi-deciduous.

Location: Brooklyn, NY
Day of Quarantine: 50

HMS: How are you feeling right now? Right now. How have you been feeling? However, you want to answer that.

LF: Um right now in this moment, I feel good. Today has been a good day. I just got back from a little outdoor couple laps around the block situation. So I feel good right now.

HMS: That's great! Outdoor stuff is good. I didn't go outside today because now that it's not sunny anymore I'm not interested in being outside. 

LF: I actually have liked when its rainy, I've especially liked the torrential downpours because thennobody else is outside. So it's the only time it feels safe to be outside. So now I love gloomy weather, whereas, yes, normally I would not be excited about gloomy weather. But these days I am.

HMS: I feel that. Are you able to work from home? 

LF: I am able to work from home.

HMS: And what does that look like for you? How is working from home going? Are you comfortable? Where are you working? 

LF: I'm comfortable where I'm working. I think that working from home has been difficult for me for several reasons. The first is that I just do not have the setup for work from home and because of all the uncertainty in terms of how long things were going to last, I didn't bother to invest in it. Now we're six weeks in and I'm still sitting on an uncomfortable chair and an uncomfortable desk trying to work. So that makes it difficult to sit down for long stretches and get anything done. And second, there's a lot of existential dread. A lot of like, what are we even doing? What does capitalism even mean? There are days that those thoughts do consume me and I'm like, what am I even doing? Why am I using productivity as the metric of whether or not this day went well under these very strange times where if anything we should be restructuring priorities. So those two things have kind of impeded my productivity, but you know, I do work still, I do what I can. My goals in terms of what I want to get done work-wise are significantly tempered compared to pre-lockdown life. 

HMS: I totally hear you as someone that is also expected to work every day as well.

LF: Yeah, my therapist basically encouraged me to go see people. I just let it all out on him last week. I was just like, let's just get into philosophy. Let's take it back, Marx was right. And he just let me ran and was like, “cool cool cool. Yes, I'm a psychiatrist. Yes. I'm a doctor. Maybe you should go see people. Stay away from them. Know might be dangerous to your health, but subtext being like you sound fucking insane so I'm suggesting you literally risk your life to interact with other humans becuse you sound like you’ve fucking lost it.”

HMS: You literally got prescribed friends. 

LF: He prescribed me friends, yeah.

HMS: And have you hung out with people since or not yet? 

LF: I have had a lot of Zoom interaction with folks. I do a thing on that at least five days a week with various groups of friend. So that has been consistent. Although it's getting super monotonous now, but I'm still grateful for it. In terms of seeing people in person, I have ventured to a friend's backyard. This was this past weekend. It was extremely nerve-wracking but, you know, maintained social distance, had my mask on the whole time. And I've had a couple of socially distant walks with people where we are literally almost cross street from each other walking and talking. So I've had interactions like that, but I love people, I like talking, I like hanging out, so I still feel kind of sad but I'm grateful and I have been doing those things. 

HMS: That's good. I’m in the same boat. It's weird, Zoom doesn't quite have everything that you need.

LF: And that's what's funny, I've had a handful, like once a week or so, social distance walks with somebody I know and those are nice, but then they're depressing because when I get back on Zoom the next time I'm like, oh my god this is not nearly as enjoyable as that. I don't know what it is, but something is definitely missing here and I'm very upset. But yeah, a lot of of that, lots of talking to family. I’m sure you know about that. 

HMS: Oh, yeah. I've never spoken to my dad so much in my entire life.

LF: Same! With me and my dad there are times that our conversations would literally just be like 90% pregnant pause 10% “yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Mhm, mhm.” Technically I can be a little stoic and quiet, and so can he. But now we're just gabbing it up, two gals going at it.

HMS: Aw, I love that.

LF: Yeah, and I mean my mom and I had a bit of a strained relationship. I am her only child but, you know, she's a Jamaican woman and since coming out there's been a lot of tension around that. So there was a while that we weren’t speaking as frequently, but it's like all that has been erased, or pushed to the side for now, and we literally speak every single day. That’s been nice.

HMS: That's good. What about your sister? She’s a nurse right?

LF: That's correct. My sister’s a nurse. Talking to her by phone probably every two days. We text every day. She is doing better than she was six weeks ago for sure. She was basically my real life example of any everything that you are seeing on the news: nurses don't have PPE, she would call me, “they're not giving us any PPE,” nurses are trying to collect their own PPE, she literally started her own drive and collected thousands of masks and distributed them to people in her hospital. So yeah, she was definitely terrified back then, especially as things were changing daily, but now I think they seem to have a handle on things, she feels I think a little bit more protected when going into see any patients at the hospital. So I think she just feels a little more in control and so she has her ups and downs, but overall, I think she's been better. 

HMS: That's good. Communication is key. Do you know anyone that has tested positive for covid-19? And were you in contact with anyone that has been sick?

LF: So I “know,” I don't actually them, it’s one degree of separation. I know someone whose family members were diagnosed. It’s unclear if my Jamaican cousin (meaning he's not actually my cousin, but I call him my cousin) his mom texted me to tell me that he had it but I saw him randomly when I was walking – I never run into him – ran into him and he definitely tried to give me a hug several times, which made me feel like maybe he didn't. I don't know, unclear. I need to clarify because there’s no way somebody who was diagnosed and suffering from this is out here actively trying to hug up on people.

HMS: You would hope.

LF: I would hope. But unclear. Outside of that though, I do not know anyone who has been diagnosed nor do I know anyone who's been sick and suspicious that they might have had it. No one that I can think of off the top of my head anyway.

HMS: But one degree of separation from someone sick.

LF: Yeah, one degree of separation from a few people. 

HMS: Have you yourself been sick at all with any symptoms that you were nervous about that could have been covid-related? 

LF: Yeah, a month and a half ago. I have allergies, spring was popping off. We got so much new information rapidly, but I believe within those first two weeks March 15th through March 30th we were still only talking about flu-like symptoms and so obviously I was like, oh my gosh, runny nose, this that, this is it. And I'm an ex-smoker and I actually quit like six months ago and part of the reason was actually because for the first time in my life, I could feel my breathing not be where it used to be and so with all this stillness, noticing or feeling that more, irrationally or maybe rationally, attributing it to being sick. But outside of what I still believe were allergies and pre-existing breathing impediments, not since locked down. However, I did go on a cruise in February. 

HMS: Whoa. Damn.

LF: We almost didn't go. It was like my mom's 60th birthday, almost didn't go, there was a lot of conversation around it but the cruise company told us that we could not get a credit for a future cruise at that time and they assured us that they were going to take all these steps to protect the safety of the passengers. So we were like, all right, we'll go. And it was still mid to late February. The cruise was fine, but I did come back from that cruise and I was very sick. I had a very high fever for several days and I was extremely exhausted, so much so that when I was in Florida back from the cruise, I literally tried to call the Miami Health Department because I was like, maybe they’ll just give me a test so I can know. I wasn't able to get through. I didn't try very hard after that and those things resolved on their own. It could have also just been the flu, I get the flu every single year and I get it pretty badly but who knows. But I was sick and I don't know.

HMS: Damn! Scary. I had the allergy thing though, the same exact thing, right when everyone started talking about the symptoms I was like wait, I have all these. And do you have health insurance on the off-chance, knock on wood, that you do get sick. 

LF: Yeah, my company pays for health insurance. That’s why having the ability to keep this job, knock on wood, at least up through now has also been very important because that's where my health insurance is through. The deductible is not low, but I do have it. 

HMS: Good, that's important. Okay changing gears a little bit. What has been the worst part of having to quarantine? 

LF: Not not being able to have people over or go see people. I really don't like that mom, for example, lives in Jamaica still and even if I wanted to go to her for some reason I literally can't. I hate that obviously. 

HMS: Yeah that’s hard. When you were getting ready quarantine, did you go out and panic buy things? And what was important for you to have for this quarantine period?

LF: So I kept it real Jamaican in that I already had a smooth six months of cleaning supplies on deck, like just as a matter of course. Literally everybody was panic-buying and I looked over and was like I have literally 60 rolls of toilet paper because I always buy them in bulk because I don't like not having toilet paper. Checked under the sink – I’m even in a smaller apartment than I was, so I've actually halved my cleaning supplies – but I checked under the sink and I have like eight bottles of Clorox wipes, two bnottles of Lysol, two bottles of beach. And I was like, okay. The thing that I didn't have was food, because I order every single meal. Super unhealthy, but that is honestly how I eat. So I didn't panic-buy, but I did go out and buy a lot of food. And definitely early on, because I wasn't used to buying food, I would buy way more than was necessary. Especially vegetables because it's like, oh wait if you don't use them within a week, they'll go bad.

HMS: Yeah, especially if it's just one person in the house too, it’s really hard to buy because you can have like one vegetable then. 

LF: Right. So I didn't panic-buy necessarily, but I definitely bought way too much food because I wasn't accustomed to it. Way too much fresh fruits and vegetables in the beginning. What I would do is that I would pick up one of the things that people said other people were panic-buying. So each time I bought groceries I would buy like two rolls of toilet paper. Just mini amounts but no panic-buying.

HMS: Related to that, what have you been eating lately? It sounds like you're no longer ordering in, but what are your go to quarantine meals that you love to cook?

LF: So quarantine has allowed me the opportunity to do something or to attempt to do something that I have been meaning to do for like seven years, but just through lack of discipline have not done, which is just to eat better and healthier and in a more balanced way. I'm 32 now, but prior to that when I was in my 20s, I could eat a lot of shitty things and get away with it, and the moment I crossed over 30 that was no longer the case. It's definitely caught up to me and I can feel a difference when I eat well and when I don't eat well. So quarantine has forced me to figure out how to eat better. So there's not a go to, I've just been playing around and just trying to up my vegetable intake an have a little bit more balance in my meals. I don't know, I like broccoli, a lot of broccoli.

HMS:That's super healthy.

LF: I have eggs, a lot of spinach. And I have never ingested more ginger in my entire life. Ginger in everything. And a lot of garlic. I thought I didn't like garlic, but garlic is in everything now. So yeah, lots of veggies and lots of home cooked stuff.

HMS: What an exciting journey for you. 

LF: It needed to happen. I like eating Ital food, I just can't cook. And I've never tried. So I'm now being forced to learn how to do those things and it's getting easier and I feel better in my person. 

HMS: What do you think will be different about the world once this is over?

LF: So, let's see, if by over we mean it has been “eradicated” either by vaccination or force of nature, I don't think anything will change in the Western Hemisphere. I don’t think anything will change in the United States of America. Why do I think that? I think that history is on loop. On generational loops, fifty to a hundred year loops. The other day I spent a little bit of time looking up archival newspapers through this database we have at work and I was reading the coverage on the Spanish Flu and many of those articles could have been from today. It was very eye-opening. You know that history is cyclical but this was very jarring to see and I don't know maybe there was a paradigm shift in the world, I don't really see it. I don't know, did people start  wearing masks, did people stop going to work? No, I think if anything urbanization became even more concentrated and intense. And even the measures that they were calling for, they’re exactly the same ones they are telling us to do today. And so no, I think capitalism and American culture are very strong forces and I think that human beings have very short memories. I mean I hope they start cleaning the fucking subway daily. I hope they keep that up. HMS: That would be nice. I doubt it though.

LF: So disgusting. I literally assumed they were already doing that. It is so disgusting. But no, I don't think that anything will change. A lot of people I talk to feel otherwise, they think this is a big paradigm shift for humankind, so I have given it some thought, but looking at history no, the answer is no, it’s not going to change.

HMS: Yeah, I tend to agree with you that people have short memories.

LF: Definitely, but we'll see. If anything, I can just speak from my own perspective, I feel like a lot of what's happened is that this has heightened the urgency of things that I wanted to do anyway. But it hasn't changed anything that I want to do. Right? It's just bumped up the timeline for some of the things I wanted to do, or made me consider reprioritizing. Those things being like: maybe I shouldn't live in such a dense area, maybe I do want more greenery. These are all thoughts I’ve been having and I have to imagine that a lot of human beings are also experiencing it the same way and so collectively therefore nothing will really change. What do you think?

HMS: I go back and forth between agreeing with you wholeheartedly, I'm like, we're gonna get out of this and people are going to have a hard time paying their rent and there's going to be a shit ton of people who are unemployed but we're going to have to go back to normal because that's just what happens. And then I'll be like there's literally no way that can happen. People can't actually pay their rent, there are so many people that are unemployed. Even the people that thought they were safe at big tech companies are at the point of getting laid off now too, so maybe we will see some change. But then I’m like what does that change even look like? Eradicating capitalism I think is potentially harder than a lot of people getting laid off and a lot of people dying, even even from a pandemic. 

LF: Mhm, I hear that. I mean look, this could be a presidential thing who knows, but I like to try to ground myself by trying to read about what other countries and other areas of the world are doing. Looking at the US, it's literally been the biggest fight to give people $1,200. That's insane and people are okay with that. And some people are like why would we want handouts? It's hard to know because I don't have my finger on the pulse of anything because I'm inside and not around people, but it would seem to me that if there were to be change, that’s the kind of thing you should be reacting against, that’s insane. And other countries are doing it so much differently and it's not causing huge political upheaval. Or it wasn’t controversial, it’s just taken for granted.

HMS: Yeah I think part of the issue is that it’s not even just a policy change that we need necessarily, it's like a full-on cultural, social change, which I don't know how you make that happen. 

LF: It’s big. Yeah, I talked to my aunt in Canada and she was like all workers on minimum wage, immediately their salaries were bumped up by X number of dollars and the government gives everyone $2000 a month, it just shows up in your account. And if you don't have an account, these are the steps that you take. And she works at a nursing home and very early on she told me about all the policies that they put in place. It was just so seamless. 

HMS: Yeah, sometimes it’s not hard I guess.

LF: And it’s like mhm this all seems reasonable, and she's like, what the fuck are you guys doing? 

HMS: Yeah, we’re like people don't want handouts. 

LF: Yeah...don’t even get me started.

HMS: Last two questions! Have you found any positive aspects to quarantine and we've kind of talked about this on the cooking front, but other than that? Any positives?

LF: Yes, I think that I am rediscovering the pleasures of boredom and coming up with solutions to that boredom that don't involve spending money. And stillness – am a very jittery go go go type of person and I think that living in a place that fuels your mania and gives you a constant opportunity to feel it because you don't have to stop, I feel like my whole sense of being got out of balance in that way and I think I was feeling anxiety over the past few years in ways I've never really experienced before. I feel more like myself now, and I realize it's because it's forced stillness and thinking back on the past and when I felt more at ease and more balanced there was balance and there was like forced stillness. I think that is a huge positive and has reminded me of the importance of that – going but also stopping. Like I said, reconnecting and talking more to my family has been really great. Love that, love them. And trying to eat a little bit better and be more conscious about that and just being more in touch with my body 

HMS: Great. All the car alarms are going off on my block because it's seven o'clock and everyone's outside banging on pots. 

LF: Oh, yeah, I don't hear that. I heard for the first time last week because I happened to have my window open. I forget that happens every day. That's right. 

HMS: It is every night. Last question is, and again we talked about this a little bit. but what have you thought about the government's response to the crisis either in New York locally or nationally?

LF: So let's break it down into three segments: last two weeks in March, let's say through the first three weeks in April, last week of April through now. Okay? First segment: craving information, so much uncertainty. So what am I doing? I'm watching the news a lot, like literally 24/7. At that point in time, that's when I became a Cuomo stan in that I would watch his briefings and I would also then watch Donald Trump's daily briefings in their entirety and I just found that whatever I wanted Donald Trump to be doing Andrew Cuomo was doing it. I remember remarking to people that I actually feel weirdly safe (laughs) after I hear Cuomo speaking because he's telling me what's going on he's telling me what he thinks were up against and he's telling me the concrete steps he's taking to try to ensure that we get through this safely and with as few casualties as possible. So it was comforting. From the federal perspective, I was foolishly hopeful. I was like this is it, he's been dicking around a little bit for these past few years, but this is going to be his moment. He's going to step up, go into manager mode and just lead in a way that nobody ever thought was possible. I really, genuinely wanted that to happen. I had no interest in cheering against him or watching him fail. I wanted him to succeed so badly and so I really kept watching for that and it just didn't happen ever. And then midway through I think he started to take things a little bit more seriously. I started to watch the news a little bit less, or I tried to, because I felt like my consumption was giving me anxiety. So I wasn't keeping up as much about what people were doing, but locally I felt the same in terms of Cuomo, de Blasio I have ignored this entire time, and federally that's when I started to feel sad because I realized that he might not actually be up to the challenge. And I also started to notice that the experts that were around him were weirdly pandering to him. I watched the CDC give out things that even from my ignorant perspective were clearly wrong. And so realizing that I couldn't even trust the information coming out of the federal agency that's supposed to be the source of information to keep us safe; shit like don't wear masks etc. I don't know. So I was nervous and I was scared because I was like, he's not going to get this right and this could be really bad. The past two weeks I've cut down my news consumption to nearly nothing, maybe an hour and a half a day: reading the New York Times at night and watching news on TV for 30 minutes. And so now I feel even less “informed” than I was before but I'm also way less anxious than I was. Locally, I feel the same, I guess [Cuomo’s] doing fine but I think that it's kind of out of his hands at this point, even though he's acting like it's still on his hands. If everywhere else is open, we're not an island. I mean we are, Manhattan is an island, but the states can't sequester themselves from each other. People popover from New Jersey. It's like, once everything around you is open you sort of have to cave at a certain point. So I’m nervous about that but I still think he seems to have a grasp on it and is approaching it sensibly. I've given up on the federal government. 

HMS: I think most people have at this point. 

LF: And I don't even pay attention to what they're saying or what they're doing because it’s a lost cause. So yeah, Cuomo: 9 to 10 stars out of 10. Federal government: sliding scale, anywhere between zero and three, depending on the day 

HMS: What a review! Well that was it. That's all my questions 

LF: Good! How many of these are you doing? 

HMS: So you are number 17? 

LF: Are you only talking to Americans? All over the US?

HMS: I am yeah, all over the U.S., but it's mostly in New York and the Bay given where I know people but I talked to someone in Michigan and North Carolina...a couple of other places.

LF: Something interesting that I learned today, my aunt – her backstory, which doesn't really matter but I’ll tell you anyway is that she's very sick, she came up here to get chemo (this is my Jamaican aunt, not my real aunt) she came up here to get chemo over a month ago now, got caught in the travel bans to and from where she lives and all that stuff, so she has been stuck in Florida post-chemo very sick for four weeks, right? And she's in Miami and we were just talking about what's been going on earlier today and she was like, “well, you know, I have to say, in Miami I remember before the federal government even said anything, I couldn't get food from restaurants.” She was like, “my son and I went to go and everything was shut down. We went to the mall and every store was shut down except Macy’s.” And that was shocking to me because I remember at that time all I saw were videos of these crazy spring breakers in Florida and how all of Florida was running around acting crazy not respecting social distancing. So, I don't know, I just feel like that's also interesting. Who even knows what the fuck is going on. She was like: “no, shit was shut down, they didn't need an order from the governor in Miami at least where I was. Nobody was doing shit. People were staying inside.” 

HMS: That's so weird. I feel like this thing keeps happening where all of these veils keep getting lifted in different ways, where I’m like wait what is actually true? Which is scary. 

LF: It’s crazy. Yeah, we don't know what's true. And thinking about it from a public health standpoint. It's like, do we even know what worked and what didn't? I’m like does anybody know? Because on paper I thought Miami folk were running around, hanging out at the beach. Let's say my aunt’s correct, then for the most part everything was shut down for a few weeks. I don't know, it's kind of crazy. Did you listen to The Daily with that guy in Michigan who was at the protest?

HMS: No, I actually stopped listening to The Daily because it was too stressful. 

LF: Yeah, I've listened to it like three times total during quarantine for that same reason. But that one was also interesting because you see these crazy Michiganders trying to kill Gretchen in essence, and I don't agree with everything he was saying, but he shed some light. You're like, oh that is kind of crazy that she told people they couldn't buy gardening supplies even though Lowes is open. That was one of the rules put in place. And you're like, okay, I guess I can see why people were getting lit if they're staying home and now you're stopping them from buying paint and gardening supplies so they can do shit to occupy themselves while they’re home. It’s all very weird. Onions. Well good luck!